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Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

w3.org

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Re: Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

#21

Post by mihaaly »

nox101 wrote: post #18
zelon88 wrote: post #10

From the manifesto... > The products and services we provide will use the least amount of energy and material resources possible. Is this from the same W3C that has been pushing us all since 2013 to upload our locally hosted files to one of 3 major cloud providers who just happen to be megadonors to W3C? Funny now that we have to send our personal files across the internet. I wonder what the sustainability "under/ove…

Are you suggesting we'd use less energy and materials if we stored things on physical media and when we needed to share something we send a physical copy via snail-mail or courier?

I believe he suggest to establish a chain of smoke signal towers transmitting the bits of our holiday photos to our distant relatives. During the day and when there is no wind of course.

There is no alterntive between storing everything in the cloud and smoke towers.

(still, I assume not the cloud storage is the most energy intensive thingy out there - but perhaps the processing of those for whatever agenda, and else - but the w3 signals are mixed the least. Perhaps this is from some sort of common corporate script book distributed in the MBI courses, from the chapter "how to pretend being serious environmentalist", mixed with the other one "deflect inconvenient/expensive steps into the infinite future or never by forming an interest group")

Re: Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

#22

Post by NegativeLatency »

nox101 wrote: post #18
zelon88 wrote: post #10

From the manifesto... > The products and services we provide will use the least amount of energy and material resources possible. Is this from the same W3C that has been pushing us all since 2013 to upload our locally hosted files to one of 3 major cloud providers who just happen to be megadonors to W3C? Funny now that we have to send our personal files across the internet. I wonder what the sustainability "under/ove…

Are you suggesting we'd use less energy and materials if we stored things on physical media and when we needed to share something we send a physical copy via snail-mail or courier?

Probably suggesting that cloud storage and cloud server products use energy less efficiently than a more simple setup

Re: Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

#23

Post by tannhaeuser »

This is coming from the same W3C, Inc. that used to publish HTML standards, or at least review spec snapshots created by (the loose group of Chrome devs and other individuals financed by Google called) WHATWG, but stopped doing so finally last year ([1], or actually already in 2021) to focus on delivering more totally unbloated and sustainable CSS instead.

[1]: https://sgmljs.net/blog/blog2303.html

Re: Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

#24

Post by solarkraft »

zelon88 wrote: post #17
Y-bar wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now it can carry a weight similar to WCAG levels, which means that product managers and customers might pay more attention to these requirements, especially if they like ticking boxes. "Our new update means we reach WGAC 2 Level AA to > 90% and WSG to 60%, next release we aim to reach WSG to >70%" might be something we hear next year.

Do you really think the same news organizations that send the user 4mb worth of cross origin Javascript just to show 6kb of text is really gonna back track like that?

I think that it will make it easier for people to justify efforts they already want to do. And that’s something, I guess.

Re: Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

#25

Post by rozap »

longtimelistnr wrote: post #16
Theodores wrote: post #5

This is a brilliant initiative. I think that less is more. Recently I was trying to inspect Twitter/X to obtain a video. You would not believe how many nested 'div' elements it was buried under. I also had to do a X icon to replace the Twitter bird. So I went to get the official one and make it into my lean SVG. Again, you would not believe how much bloat was in what should have been a very simple file. This is no ra…

Twitter regularly changes the location of source videos because as X they now charge for the ability to download them directly. I've also noticed on iOS, if you attempt to screen record a video the app essentially crashes or glitches the video player.

As with many things, the solution is ffmpeg. After I got that upsell thing when I tried to download a video about a week ago, I found the correct ffmpeg incantation, mostly out of spite for Twitter. If you find the m3u8 request in devtools on a tweet, you can use something like the following:

  ffmpeg -i 'https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1846357395959615488/pu/pl/ecNx-sTzYA9doHYO.m3u8' -analyzeduration 5G -codec:a libmp3lame -b:a 96k output.mp4
(if anyone runs that command...you're welcome for the meme, unfortunately I don't know where it came from)

Re: Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

#27

Post by hinkley »

vegadw wrote: post #11

What, uh, do they think they're going to do? Tell people "Static sites are cool actually.". ""the IG plans to liaise with regulatory bodies to improve compliance targets"" Regulatory bodies absolutely do not care about W3C. Hell, they barely care about the IETF, IEEE, ICANN, etc. I'm all for pushing for sustainability, but look at the other interest groups. For example, privacy. Cloudflare just published an article t…

There's a group in my neighborhood that adopts public sector projects and runs them all from a small cluster that they operate.

I keep thinking they would do better if they got ahead of things and suggested a toolchain for future projects, that would increase the odds that they get adopted.

Getting a few groups of volunteers together to learn a handful of LTS technology stacks instead of a cartesian product of all of them that grabbed two people's fancy three years ago and now they're bored/out of money. It would make it a lot easier to get to a more PBS-adjacent model of internet for the public good.

In some respects this is a different sort of sustainable than what they mention in the article, but amortizing a bunch of relatively low-pop services across a single cluster and admin team still counts as an efficiency, versus having them scattered on disparate hardware, disappear from neglect, to be recreated again in a few years from scratch, after someone squats the old URL and refuses to give it back.

Re: Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

#28

Post by whatshisface »

zelon88 wrote: post #17
Y-bar wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now it can carry a weight similar to WCAG levels, which means that product managers and customers might pay more attention to these requirements, especially if they like ticking boxes. "Our new update means we reach WGAC 2 Level AA to > 90% and WSG to 60%, next release we aim to reach WSG to >70%" might be something we hear next year.

Do you really think the same news organizations that send the user 4mb worth of cross origin Javascript just to show 6kb of text is really gonna back track like that?

That cross-orign JavaScript is their revenue.

Re: Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

#29

Post by reaperducer »

tsobral wrote: post #3

I hope they're successful. I think the web really needs some "decluttering". The ratio of processing power by useful payload nowadays is unsustainable. For example any news website, in order to read some text, you need to load a ton of JavaScript, ads (some even video) that add zero value to the intended purpose. My nostalgia wants some of the early 00s web again, but I believe in something between. Which consumes fa…

I think the web really needs some "decluttering". The ratio of processing power by useful payload nowadays is unsustainable.

I completely agree. However, I think browsers are also to blame in some part.

On web sites that I build, I sometimes get alerts from Safari that my page is bogging down the computer and it offers to "reduce protections" to make the page perform better. But this is always on pages that are plain HTML and CSS, and don't even have animations. No Javascript. No canvas. Not even forms. And the total payload is often less than 20K.

I don't know what else I can do to make it lighter.

Re: Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

#30

Post by cle »

tsobral wrote: post #3

I hope they're successful. I think the web really needs some "decluttering". The ratio of processing power by useful payload nowadays is unsustainable. For example any news website, in order to read some text, you need to load a ton of JavaScript, ads (some even video) that add zero value to the intended purpose. My nostalgia wants some of the early 00s web again, but I believe in something between. Which consumes fa…

> that add zero value to the intended purpose

Well...to your intended purpose. They're often better aligned with the purpose of keeping the business running.

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