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Starship's Sixth Flight Test

spacex.com

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Re: Starship's Sixth Flight Test

#251
post #164
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those of you who like dubstep, start the following video first https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2eBMuL0C2o then 3 seconds later start to watch the (muted) SpaceX video from OP's post and thank me later. ;-) Especially the catch is awesome!

I think it's a cool achievement, but for some perspective NASA first did a vertical rocket ship landing without chopsticks decades ago. And the whole point of this thing was to do that on the moon, which is never going to happen at this rate.

[deleted]

Re: Starship's Sixth Flight Test

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_1#Launches Customers: DARPA, DARPA, DOD/NASA, mass simulator (instead of the intended payload after the first three launches), Malaysia (the intended payload of the fourth flight). "pre-arranged commitments by NASA to purchase several operational flights" is a subsidy, as were the milestone payments along the way. I'm a huge SpaceX fan, but let's not pretend they could've done thi…

Would you call that a subsidy still if the government saved more money than it provided as the subsidy?

Yes, absolutely.

We made money off https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program, but it was 100% a subsidy.

Re: Starship's Sixth Flight Test

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are airlines subsidizing oil companies when they purchase oil futures in order to hedge their oil costs? No; both parties in the deal have successfully accomplished their respective roles repeatedly before. The airline isn't doing anything new; the oil company isn't doing anything new. (And they both absolutely get subsidized!) > There is no indication that these commitments were underpriced by the government... Th…

No question that NASA was pivotal to SpaceX’s success, especially COTS program. However that wasn’t subsides. They only got paid when they could deliver. Had they fail to launch Falcon 9 or cargo Dragon they would have gotten no dimes from NASA.

> Had they fail to launch Falcon 9 or cargo Dragon they would have gotten no dimes from NASA.

That's false.

https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/189228main_s... - start at page 34.

The first demonstration mission is paid milestone #13. If I'm adding it up correctly, about $200M paid out prior to that first demonstration flight.

Re: Starship's Sixth Flight Test

#255

Can someone give me sources for how to debunk this? https://youtu.be/75a49S4RTRU?si=dcGFgcIWNz3nDwxw For me, it’s compelling but I’m no expert. Anyone got any background that can prove this guy is wrong?

I’ve liked some of his other videos and made it in twenty minutes. He has three arguments: SpaceX is late and over budget on HLS, booster recapture is the easiest part of Starship’s technical risks and Starship is bad value for money.

On the first two he’s right. Starship was, per SpaceX’s proposal to NASA, supposed to be almost ready by now. It’s not. But neither is any other leg of Artemis, and there is no unforgivable delay in the timeline. (To the degree there are stupid delays, it’s because the FAA was playing water cop.)

Recapture is the easiest technical challenge of the programme. Partly because SpaceX already demonstrated most of the tech with Falcon 9. Partly because in-orbit refuelling is unprecedented. The lunar lander was one of the easiest parts of the Apollo programme, by similar measure—that doesn’t make it unimpressive.

The last—bad bang for the buck—is a value judgement. Do we want a heavy lift booster or more Mars rovers? If we want sustainable access to space, we need cheaper launch. If one doesn’t care about that, rovers are better spend, but at that point I can start arguing for feeding the hungry with those bucks.

I stopped watching when the criticism of Falcon 9’s price came up. Why should SpaceX, a private company, undercut itself? It’s already the cheapest (PSLV gives it a run for some orbits), most reliable and most frequent launch provider in the world. It makes sense to capture the delta as profit, in part to fund things like Starship. (There is also no inflation adjustment.)

In summary, the technical criticisms are accurate but out of context. The value judgement is subjective. If you don’t value cheap, frequent space launch of course Starship won’t make sense for any amount of money.

EDIT: Kept watching. The energy math on second-stage reëntry is okay as a first estimate. But we don’t have final numbers for anything. And there are a lot of unknowns, e.g. final dry weight, how much energy the heat tiles can store and dissipate, if transpiration cooling could work, how plasma could dissipate energy, whether compression heat could be redirected away from the craft, whether firing mid-descent could reduce heat, et cetera. We certainly don’t have enough data to reject it ex ante. And the second stage being unreadable doesn’t tank Starship, though it probably does Artemis.

Re: Starship's Sixth Flight Test

#256
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's why South Africa is the way it is. I recommend living there for a bit, might be an eye opener for some Westerners.

It's like the US in a decade. (I have been to both and would rather spend a week in Cape Town than Chicago for example)

Really? Cape town has a homicide rate of: 63.00 per 100,000

Compared to Chicago: 29.60

And similar crime and violent crime rates.

Re: Starship's Sixth Flight Test

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I for one do not care about Mars, the science, all his expensive toys. I'm here on earth trying to make ends meat. What has his rocket done for me? Who's praising the engineers who are grinding their souls to accomplish? It's not Musk accomplishing this. He just stuck up human with money. Like all. And as an environmentalist in my spare time, why are we trying to get to some red rock of a planet than fixing the clima…

>I for one do not care about Mars, the science, all his expensive toys. I'm here on earth trying to make ends meat. What has his rocket done for me? I mean at least for me personally it gave me excellent Internet access when I was on vacation in the middle of nowhere and didn't even have cell reception. And if there's a big disaster in my area I'm sure it will be excellent for maintaining communication.

Again, satellite net has existed since years. He made it accessible to others which has its merits. But then goes boasting egotistically acting other lesser-evil, almost like sabotaging others with not caring.

Competition always drives down the price. It's not the first satellite in space. You could of had satellite internet prior. But again, like electric cars these companies have been blind and moronic for not moving in making it available for the people.

Google tried with their own fibre not as they're any better in merits.

I don't trust it. I'd rather be without than with but again however I do live in a country where it isn't as critical.

The needs of, and I don't rule out the positive of, I would just prefer it to managed other than himself but, or actually showed some professional qualities owning to it.

To me, the internet now is a commodity; I'm a nerd with colocated servers.

I'm not scared of it, I just don't like it. The person in charge, his agenda does not benefit anything positive To the folks.

Re: Starship's Sixth Flight Test

#258
post #131

SpaceX just posted this video of the last test. It's one of the most inspiring things I've ever seen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI9HQfCAw64

For those of you who like dubstep, start the following video first https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2eBMuL0C2o then 3 seconds later start to watch the (muted) SpaceX video from OP's post and thank me later. ;-) Especially the catch is awesome!

Nice, how did you find a music clip with such a good match across the whole video? Or are you saying you know that SpaceX media people were using that as test music when cutting theirs?

Re: Starship's Sixth Flight Test

#260
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 5 and 20 Starship launches per mission That is not actually such a big deal when you realize they are just ferrying fuel on a reusable rocket. They're also doing it well in advance of the mission. There is a massive logistics chain making it possible to buy fuel on your road trip, this is similar. > That's a clear regression from the Saturn V. Not exactly, as the fuel provided in orbit by these other missions will…

> Not exactly, as the fuel provided in orbit by these other missions will allow a much larger payload to reach the Moon's surface and return. Amortized over the number of launches it takes to get a single moonshot. > StarShip can already deliver a similar payload to orbit as Saturn V But Saturn V's purpose was not getting things to orbit. We have plenty of rockets capable of getting to orbit. And given that satellite…

> Amortized over the number of launches it takes to get a single moonshot.

Saturn V was completely destroyed by each launch with only the payload surviving. It's not exactly an apples to apples comparison when you compare # launches.

Those 10-15 launches of StarShip will be a lot cheaper than a single Saturn V launch because at the end you still have all the StarShips you launched and all you used was some methane and oxygen.

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