The 48G was a really good calculator, but only after loading additional software. The HP50g that came much later is better in every respect, except possibly for the smaller "ENTER" key (and people used to 48G will have to change some habits and possibly redefine some keys…). Incidentally, many young people (yes, I know how that sounds) do not know how useful a good engineering calculator can be and do not want to lea…
What do you think distinguishes the HP-50 from the 48, 49? I had a 48 and 49. There were form factor and interface changes, the 50 is an ARM running a simulator vs the original Saturn architecture, there's the SD card. What are the key software changes? Better CAS? I admittedly don't use it in any great depth (I did in the past), but the iHP48 is a very nice HP-48 for iOS. And it solves my primary complaint with the…
DB48X: High Performance Scientific Calculator, Reinvented
111–120 of 140 posts
Re: DB48X: High Performance Scientific Calculator, Reinvented
#112The 48G was a really good calculator, but only after loading additional software. The HP50g that came much later is better in every respect, except possibly for the smaller "ENTER" key (and people used to 48G will have to change some habits and possibly redefine some keys…). Incidentally, many young people (yes, I know how that sounds) do not know how useful a good engineering calculator can be and do not want to lea…
I never liked the 48 series or the 50G (I own both) that much. I can never remember how to use them half of the time. I always end up back with my 38 year old HP 15c. That has done me through separate engineering and mathematics degrees and about 30 years worth of jobs. They just issued new ones as well! (HP 15CE)
* HP-25 (yes, a nearly 50-year old calculator, but you can hold it in one hand and it does most things I need very well)
* HP-11C or 15C (doesn't matter which, I don't use the extra features of the 15C)
* HP-12C
* HP-50G (very useful for unit conversions)
Re: DB48X: High Performance Scientific Calculator, Reinvented
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm a calculator nut who has had many fancy TI (like the Voyage 200) and HP calculators (yes RPN) including the SwissMicro reproductions. The ONLY benefit to these tools that I can surmise is basically that they are a physical device for scientists or others in the lab or field and not in front of a computer. For any kind of data work I've seen, Excel, R, Python, Mathematica, or Matlab are all vastly superior. They a…
I don’t use the physical HP50G i have that often, but i love it emulated on the phone. It’s for semi complicated quick calculations where scientific calculator interface really shines compared to anything else available.
I'd really like to run HP50G on iOS, but the only emulator I know was abandoned years ago (I got the source just in case, but it's a lot of work to fix the issues and build it).
Re: DB48X: High Performance Scientific Calculator, Reinvented
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
I never liked the 48 series or the 50G (I own both) that much. I can never remember how to use them half of the time. I always end up back with my 38 year old HP 15c. That has done me through separate engineering and mathematics degrees and about 30 years worth of jobs. They just issued new ones as well! (HP 15CE)
Yes, that series is really good. The calcs I use most often: * HP-25 (yes, a nearly 50-year old calculator, but you can hold it in one hand and it does most things I need very well) * HP-11C or 15C (doesn't matter which, I don't use the extra features of the 15C) * HP-12C * HP-50G (very useful for unit conversions)
Re: DB48X: High Performance Scientific Calculator, Reinvented
#115I have it installed on my DM42. Its nice, but I dont like two things: - Where's the apostrophe (equiv. to quote in lisp)? That should be an easily accessible key not buried in a menu. - Why did he swap the log keys? I also wish the HP48's steq interface to plot existed, but whatever.
The apostrophe is on the XEQ key of the DM42, or "F". But in RPL, it is not to quote like in Lisp, but to introduce algebraic expressions (although it does quote names as a side effect).
On the simulator / web site, the symbol on the key looks like this: [' ()], it is on the second row on the rightmost column, see https://github.com/c3d/db48x/blob/stable/DB48X-Keys/DB48X-Ke....
The key is labeled like this because it serves a dual purpose to accommodate the smaller number of keys on the DM42 relative to the HP48. It adds a tick when not inside an expression, which in RPL begins an algebraic expression. When you are inside an algebraic expression, then you don't need tick anymore, so the key inserts parentheses inside.
> - Why did he swap the log keys?
Because I personally prefer to have exp and ln rather than ln and log. I also would prefer to have y^x as a primary, unshifted key, and this change is coming soon.
But I recognize that keyboard layout is a personal preference, so I'm currently working on making this customizable. Recently, "User mode" has been introduced, which lets you reconfigure the keyboard the way you want. So if you want to restore decimal LOG as the primary key instead of EXP, then do this: 'LOG10' 24.1 ASN. You should be able to restore EXP to the original position with 'EXP' 25.2 ASN, but there is bug with shifted user keys that I need to fix. This should be fixed in the next release.
In addition, the very next release should offer three layouts:
1) One that is maximally compatible with DM42 / HP42, which I assume is what you want.
2) One that corresponds to the current layout, so that people with existing overlays can keep them.
3) One that corresponds to a new iteration of the key layout that is better suited for DB48x, which is currently being discussed on the HP Museum forum.
Re: DB48X: High Performance Scientific Calculator, Reinvented
#116The 48G was a really good calculator, but only after loading additional software. The HP50g that came much later is better in every respect, except possibly for the smaller "ENTER" key (and people used to 48G will have to change some habits and possibly redefine some keys…). Incidentally, many young people (yes, I know how that sounds) do not know how useful a good engineering calculator can be and do not want to lea…
Emulators are stuck in the past, since they need to rely on the HP ROMs. So all the nice new features in DB48x, like variable-precision decimal arithmetic, support for higher-resolution graphics and colour, tail-recursion optimization, object size optimizations, polar and rectangular complex numbers or vectors, or the extensive Markdown-based builtin help would all be impossible to implement.
> I wish there was a good HP50G emulator for iOS — there used to be one, but it was abandoned (contact me if you want to develop it and would like to get the source code, it was under the GPL and I got it from the author).
I have two pretty good emulators on my iPhone, one is iHP48, the other is i48. Both can emulate the HP50G if you load the correct ROM, IIRC.
That being said, I second the idea that if you got the source in GPL form, you should publish them on GitHub. Or share with me and I will do it, possibly restore it (I have vague plans to restore Emu71 as well, when I'm done with DB48x).
Re: DB48X: High Performance Scientific Calculator, Reinvented
#117The 48G was a really good calculator, but only after loading additional software. The HP50g that came much later is better in every respect, except possibly for the smaller "ENTER" key (and people used to 48G will have to change some habits and possibly redefine some keys…). Incidentally, many young people (yes, I know how that sounds) do not know how useful a good engineering calculator can be and do not want to lea…
> No, this is not replaced by typing "python" (or "bc", or anything else, really) at your command prompt. Why not? At least I can easily copy the results and the code to a document which avoids transcription errors. Or do you mean that there simply isn't a program that has the functions you use?
Keystroke count and progressive computations.
Let me illustrate using an example from a YouTube video called "The hardest Exam Question : Only 6% of students solved it correctly" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfgEPsm9Jzw), which is about a simplified formulation for (sqrt(2)-1)^10.
The first remark is that a CAS-capable calculator like DB48x can help with the symbolic part of the computation shown in the video. However, to be fair, DB48x still lacks some of the relevant HP48 interactive equation manipulation features to be able to demonstrate that. So let's focus for now on the numerical part.
The author shows that (sqrt(2)-1)^10 is the same as 3363-2378*sqrt(2). Let's evaluate that using bc.
Attempt 1: bc, then (sqrt(2)-1)^10-(3363-2378*sqrt(2))
Result: -985. Er... What?
OK. What is the option for precision again? man bc. Search for precision. Mentions the @ operator. Does not seem to do it. 5 minutes of search later, find that precision is called scale, that I need the -S option. I could also presumably use the -l option, which experimentally seems to set the scale to 20. Starting to remember why I am not a big fan of bc ;-)
Trying again. bc -l
(sqrt(2)-1)^10-(3363-2378*sqrt(2)) now gives me:
-.00000000000000000402.
Counting "bc -l" and ENTER keys, that's I believe 42 keystrokes.
Trying again with db48x: I need 23 keys using the most naive RPN data entry. The result is -1.57861 99E⁻²⁰ with the default 24-digit precision.
I can also enter the same algebraic expression as in bc directly in the simulator using copy-paste. I get a nice graphical rendering of the expression, which I can check, and then just one key (EVAL/=) to get the numerical value.
As another example, let's try to check if the Ramanujan constant in an integer:
bc -l
e(sqrt(163)*pi(20))
262537412640768743.98947654935272888605
That does not look like an integer to me. And it's way more than the 20 digits I would expect from scale. What is weird is that it gives me a false sense of accuracy, all the digits after "43.9" are bogus, as shown by switching the scaling to 100:
bc -l -S100
e(sqrt(163)*pi(100))
262537412640768743.9999999999992500725971981856888793538563373369908\ 627075374103782106479101186073126534265238592035363
21 keystrokes, and a result that is a bit hard to interpret with the default precision (scaling). In other words, it's pretty easy to get bogus numerical results and not know it.
With DB48x, after selecting a precision of 100, 11 keystrokes including menu selection to get the pi constant, and I get: 262 537 412 640 768 743.99999 99999 99250 07259 71981 85688 87935 38563 37336 99086 27075 37410 37821 06479 10118 60730 76
> At least I can easily copy the results and the code to a document which avoids transcription errors.
This is also true with the DB48x simulator, which supports copy and paste both ways. This is how I copied the values above, or entered the exact same algebraic expression as in bc into the simulator.
Re: DB48X: High Performance Scientific Calculator, Reinvented
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
This thread is making my point for me rather well.
yes a lot of people love them, but nobody's actually coming up with anything I can't do in python...
1. What happens if I rotate binary pattern 1001 right by 3 positions on a 18-bit PDP-9?
RPL code: 18 STWS 2#1001 3 RRC
Result: #8001 in base 16, #1000 0000 0000 0001 in base 2.
What about if I do this on 6 36-bit words? RPL code: 6 36 * STWS 2#1001 3 RRC
Result: #20 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0001
2. What is the symbolic expression of the determinant of some 2x2 matrix? Program: [[1 y]['2+x' b]] DET
Answer: 'b-(x+2)·y' (shows graphically on calculator screen)
3. What is the output voltage of a voltage divider with input voltage 100V, R1=4kΩ, R2=10Ω Program: R1=4_kΩ R2=10_Ω V=100_V 'ROOT(ⒺVolt Divider;[V1];[1_V])' EVAL
Result: [ V1=99.75 V ]
Note that ⒺVolt Divider is a built-in equation, but you can of course put your own.
4. Verify if Ramanujan constant exp(sqrt(163)*pi) is an integer. Program: « 'exp(√ 163·Ⓒπ)'60 PRECISION →Num FractionalPart »
Result: -7.50E⁻¹³, so no, not an integer, but really close
5. Verify Maxwell's value for the speed of light, epsilon0 * mu0 * c^2 = 1. Program: '(√(Ⓒε0·Ⓒμ0))⁻¹' →Num
Result: 299 792 458.00 m/(F↑(¹/₂)·H↑(¹/₂))
Convert to SI units: UBASE
Result: 299 792 458. m/s
Convert to feet per second: ³⁷⁴ ⁷⁴⁰ ⁵⁷² ⁵⁰⁰/₃₈₁ ft/s or 983 571 056.43 ft/s.
(if you subtract the Ⓒc constant, you get -0.00031 11057 21 m/s)
6. Check the Collatz conjecture on 989345275647 Program: « if dup 1 ≠ then if dup 2 mod then 3 × 1 + else 2 ÷ end Collatz end » 'Collatz' STO 989345275647 Collatz
Result: 1 (conjecture is verified)
7. Given that it's now Nov 7, 00:07:51 and that a program I started on Nov 1st at 23:15:27 just finished, how long did it run? Program: 20241107.000751_date 20241101.231527_date - 1_h convert UVAL →HMS
Result: 120:52:24
(the "1_h convert UVAL →HMS" should really just be →HMS, but at the moment, →HMS is not smart enough to convert from days)Re: DB48X: High Performance Scientific Calculator, Reinvented
#119I still have a HP48GX in perfect condition and love it. One of my first programs was to calculate how much „slower“ my time is running when I drive a car or fly in a plane compared to someone standing still on the sidewalk. I still find it much more comfortable having a real calculator… call me old fashioned.
Re: DB48X: High Performance Scientific Calculator, Reinvented
#120Seems like a really nice effort. Nice they crammed it into the DM42 machines. But for me, the learning curve is steeper than the utility. I have no real need for an actual calculator, I rely on my phone. On there I have iHP48, and I've already gone through much of that learning curve to make it useful (back in the day with an original one). If you already have the DM42, I guess its a mostly compatible upgrade from th…