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Boston Dynamics robot Atlas goes hands on [video]

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Re: Boston Dynamics robot Atlas goes hands on [video]

#211

Post by BugsJustFindMe »

stevenhuang wrote: post #195
artninja1988 wrote: post #68

Why does it jump so awkwardly when the part doesn't fit and it has to readjust?

The cloth receptacle is being compressed like a spring. It seems like when the robot thought the object was put away (or some safety feedback mechanism of receiving too much force feedback activates), it "relaxes" its actuators and goes limp, say. Then the stored force from the spring is released. What we're seeing with the jump is the robot rebalancing itself in order to remain upright.

> The cloth receptacle is being compressed like a spring. ... Then the stored force from the spring is released.

Not a chance. The compartments are clearly just hanging there and not under the kind of tension that could cause something like that.

Re: Boston Dynamics robot Atlas goes hands on [video]

#212

Post by bamboozled »

coding123 wrote: post #153
FabHK wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the latter has (at least in IT, where you had Moore's law) generally won out fairly quickly.

But in industrialised physical space, it has been the former, especially when things scale to produce 1000 objects per minute.

Exactly, if you had a need to job the job atlas is doing, you’d replace it very quickly with a specialised bot with ten hands.

Not saying the bot isn’t useful, just that it seems more of a gimmick than a real need in any serious factory / plant.

Re: Boston Dynamics robot Atlas goes hands on [video]

#213

Post by zorex »

guerrilla wrote: post #209
zorex wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not be impressed? The reasons you gave are enough for the majority of people following along. The exciting parts are the steps along the way. Once we have something that is actually usable and integrated into our everyday lives, it will lose its novelty fast.

> Why not be impressed? Because it's obviously useless and a regression from the kinds of robots we already have.

So that means we just stop innovating and not try to go beyond what we already have? This is not regression since this has no effect on the robots we already have, industrial robots are on their own innovation branch. These are prototypes, a glimpse into the future at what's possible with more experimentation and technological progression.

Re: Boston Dynamics robot Atlas goes hands on [video]

#214

Post by berkes »

zarzavat wrote: post #176
berkes wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These efficiënt forms are there. In use. Proven. Have been for decades. Cranes, carts, lorries, conveyor belts (with vision), my robot vacuum cleaner, my bread baking machine, a car wash, a dishwasher, the ticket gates at the underground, the coffee machine at our office and so on.

Yet, there are still millions of humans working in factories. There is value to the human form, our versatility and adaptability. A machine that replicated a human would have incredible economic value (though not for the people whose jobs it replaced). A machine that exceeded a human in versatility, e.g. by having more arms, even more so.

> still millions of humans working in factories

Yes, there are. But that's not caused by lack of humanoid robots, but because these humans are rediculously cheap.

There's absolutely no way that automation and tech can undercut (effective) slave labor.Though already this is happening: your tshirts and socks are probably not hand-knitted by "Bangladeshi children" or Chinese "prisoners", but by machines tailor-made (pun intended) for t-shirt and sock-knitting. This is happening slowly, and in the supply chain there's still loads of manual labor - cotton picked and processed for these socks is more and more automated, but still requires armies of cheap farm-hands.

And then it's really hard to undercut the price of cheap "western" labor with full automation in many sectors. Part of that is due to some form of 90/10 rule: the last 10% of automation is magnitudes more expensive. And many automation leads to a higher TCO, as the people programming, maintaining and optimizing the robots are far more expensive than an "army" of low-wage workers.

Humanoid robots may be an answer in some future, but currently and in near future will certainly not solve these economics. If ever.

Re: Boston Dynamics robot Atlas goes hands on [video]

#215

Post by guerrilla »

zorex wrote: post #213
guerrilla wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not be impressed? Because it's obviously useless and a regression from the kinds of robots we already have.

So that means we just stop innovating and not try to go beyond what we already have? This is not regression since this has no effect on the robots we already have, industrial robots are on their own innovation branch. These are prototypes, a glimpse into the future at what's possible with more experimentation and technological progression.

> So that means we just stop innovating and not try to go beyond what we already have?

No. It means it's not impressive.

Re: Boston Dynamics robot Atlas goes hands on [video]

#216

Post by quickthrowman »

throwaway313373 wrote: post #200
quickthrowman wrote: post #32

One immediate use I can see for this robot is racking and energizing circuit breakers in electrical switchgear, which is one of the most dangerous things an electrician does. Arc flashes are very bad for humans, robots can be replaced easily. Racking 480V three-phase breakers: https://youtu.be/Rytjdqj_Img

I'm not sure how robot will be better than a stick made of a non-conductive material. Stick is surely simpler and cheaper.

I’m not talking about using hot sticks used for disconnecting and reconnecting live conductors, I’m talking about removing and replacing switchgear breakers for maintenance and testing from energized switchgear.

There is a risk of arc flash when you disconnect the bus fingers and also when you reconnect them to the bus, and a robot is easier to replace than a human.

Re: Boston Dynamics robot Atlas goes hands on [video]

#217

Post by stevenhuang »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #211
stevenhuang wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cloth receptacle is being compressed like a spring. It seems like when the robot thought the object was put away (or some safety feedback mechanism of receiving too much force feedback activates), it "relaxes" its actuators and goes limp, say. Then the stored force from the spring is released. What we're seeing with the jump is the robot rebalancing itself in order to remain upright.

> The cloth receptacle is being compressed like a spring. ... Then the stored force from the spring is released. Not a chance. The compartments are clearly just hanging there and not under the kind of tension that could cause something like that.

Do you work with servos? I do, and what we see here is exactly what happens when the arm control loop essentially "turns off" because it is not expecting to hold position.

In this state it doesn't take much counter force at all to imbalance the system. You're also ignoring the momentum of the arm being pushed back. Then it is the supervisory control loop (balancing the robot) that "over reacts" to maintain current position. It is this active control that is responsible for the jolt we see, not the spring itself.

Re: Boston Dynamics robot Atlas goes hands on [video]

#218

Post by __m »

kvark wrote: post #25
mempko wrote: post #8

Compare this to the human controlled puppets Tesla demonstrated. Tesla made a big show of something Disney could do years ago. While Boston Dynamics is quietly building the real thing and showing us footage of it actually working.

You are comparing a live demo with many bots interacting with humans, versus a recording of a single bot in a factory by itself.

teleoperated machines, not bots, interacting with humans

Re: Boston Dynamics robot Atlas goes hands on [video]

#219

Post by zorex »

guerrilla wrote: post #215
zorex wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So that means we just stop innovating and not try to go beyond what we already have? This is not regression since this has no effect on the robots we already have, industrial robots are on their own innovation branch. These are prototypes, a glimpse into the future at what's possible with more experimentation and technological progression.

> So that means we just stop innovating and not try to go beyond what we already have? No. It means it's not impressive.

In all honesty I'd like to know, what is your idea of impressive and what is the direction you want robotics to go towards?

Re: Boston Dynamics robot Atlas goes hands on [video]

#220

Post by Tepix »

amelius wrote: post #154
Tepix wrote: post #152

Looking at the cool non-human movement of the head, the upper torso and the legs i'm wondering if changing the legs so that they are symmetrical, instead of the knees only bending in one direction, is a coming improvement. That way it could walk forward and backward.

Humans can walk backward. And you still need to move the payload to the other side.

The robot can rotate the upper torso independently of the lower torso and the head, as seen in the video.
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