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Man arrested for attempting to destroy Nashville power site

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Re: Man arrested for attempting to destroy Nashville power site

#11

Post by pushupentry1219 »

dpc_01234 wrote: post #2

Isn't it always the same story? FBI targets some mentally unstable, near mentally challenged dude, feeds him some propaganda, gives him ideas and encourages him to do some terrorist stuff, then they arrest him claiming huge victory? The guy literally wouldn't be able to do any of that stuff if it wasn't for undercover agents pushing him to do it. "he ordered a plastic explosive composition known as C-4 and other expl…

This excuse always always comes up when the perpetrator is a white supremacist and pretty much never when they are any other variety of terrorist.

Re: Man arrested for attempting to destroy Nashville power site

#12

Post by palmfacehn »

pushupentry1219 wrote: post #11
dpc_01234 wrote: post #2

Isn't it always the same story? FBI targets some mentally unstable, near mentally challenged dude, feeds him some propaganda, gives him ideas and encourages him to do some terrorist stuff, then they arrest him claiming huge victory? The guy literally wouldn't be able to do any of that stuff if it wasn't for undercover agents pushing him to do it. "he ordered a plastic explosive composition known as C-4 and other expl…

This excuse always always comes up when the perpetrator is a white supremacist and pretty much never when they are any other variety of terrorist.

https://www.google.com/search?q=fbi+entrapped+muslim+teenage...

Cursory research will produce the following links:

https://theintercept.com/2023/06/15/fbi-undercover-isis-teen...

>Critics say the FBI is running a sting operation across America, targeting – to a large extent – the Muslim community by luring people into fake terror plots.

https://www.cair.com/blog/fbi-entrapment-harms-vulnerable-mu...

>Every day was the same for Khalil Abu Rayyan, 21, a depressed pizza delivery man from Dearborn Heights, Michigan. Working for a pizzeria in Detroit, he’d drive late nights on desolate inner city streets...

https://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/29/politics/aby-rayyan-fbi-t...

>“We are tremendously pleased that our clients are on their way home -- even if it’s fourteen years too late,” said Amith R. Gupta, part of a group of lawyers representing Payen and the Willamses, who are not related. Gupta in his statement described the three as destitute men “entrapped for their race, religion, and working-class backgrounds by a government looking to spread fear of Muslims and justify bloated budgets.”

https://apnews.com/article/newburgh-four-terrorism-sting-fbi...

Re: Man arrested for attempting to destroy Nashville power site

#13

Post by MaxikCZ »

pxeger1 wrote: post #5
MaxikCZ wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idk. If an undercover FBI agent can convince you to order C4 with intent to blow up infrastructure, who says someone else couldnt. Id rather it be an agent locking him up, than real seller, while an agent dont notice.

But then the label "for attempting to destroy ..." is misleading, because a priori all they’ve really proven is he is susceptible to being convinced to attempt to destroy it. It seems to me your argument can be extended to justify any form of entrapment: "if an undercover police officer can convince you to buy a gun with the intent to rob someone at gunpoint, who says someone else couldn’t?"

Lets switch "attempting to destroy" for "attenpting to murder".

If an undercover cop sells you a gun knowing you want to use it to murder your spouse, you should definetly be charged with both, illegal purchase of firearm and intent to murder, regardless whether you actually to managed to murder someone first.

Does it matter that all someone (be it undercover cop or criminal) proved was you are able to be convinced to murder your spouse AND buy a gun? In my books you either charge the person at that point (for intent to murder), or it will be too late.

Same applies to "suspectible to destroy". They proven their intent AND purchased C4... Shall we give them benefit of the doubt until it actually goes boom?

Re: Man arrested for attempting to destroy Nashville power site

#14

Post by MaxikCZ »

octopoc wrote: post #10
MaxikCZ wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idk. If an undercover FBI agent can convince you to order C4 with intent to blow up infrastructure, who says someone else couldnt. Id rather it be an agent locking him up, than real seller, while an agent dont notice.

Let’s say, for sake of argument, that only 10% of crimes committed due to entrapment would have been committed without entrapment. Are you still okay with that outcome? At what percentage does entrapment become a good thing? 50%? We can use statistics and models to estimate this I think, it would just be a lot of work.

I think you shouldnt get charged for crimes you didnt commit, but it shouldnt matter whether an undercover cop or criminal enabled you to achieve your criminal goal.

I am sure many things can be prosecuted before they even happen (like intent to murder as oposed to murder itself), and those should apply regardless of who talks you into intending to carry out the crime

Re: Man arrested for attempting to destroy Nashville power site

#15

Post by K0balt »

pushupentry1219 wrote: post #11
dpc_01234 wrote: post #2

Isn't it always the same story? FBI targets some mentally unstable, near mentally challenged dude, feeds him some propaganda, gives him ideas and encourages him to do some terrorist stuff, then they arrest him claiming huge victory? The guy literally wouldn't be able to do any of that stuff if it wasn't for undercover agents pushing him to do it. "he ordered a plastic explosive composition known as C-4 and other expl…

This excuse always always comes up when the perpetrator is a white supremacist and pretty much never when they are any other variety of terrorist.

Well, it’s just anecdotal, but a distant relative of my ex was imprisoned after being coaxed by FBI agents into attempting a mass shooting with a pellet gun. He was arrested walking out of a Walmart with his new pellet gun.

He is a disabled person clearly not qualified to buy firearms. The store would not sell him a real rifle on his first attempt, so the FBI agents told him to buy a pellet gun.

It would have been a “hilarious prank” if he didn’t end up spending 3 years in federal custody. TBF he was probably a lot better off in federal custody than in his normal day to day, so hard to say if this was really a bad thing for him.

Still, it’s frustrating to know that the resources of the FBI are spent on pranking disabled people.

Re: Man arrested for attempting to destroy Nashville power site

#16

Post by ttyprintk »

dpc_01234 wrote: post #2

Isn't it always the same story? FBI targets some mentally unstable, near mentally challenged dude, feeds him some propaganda, gives him ideas and encourages him to do some terrorist stuff, then they arrest him claiming huge victory? The guy literally wouldn't be able to do any of that stuff if it wasn't for undercover agents pushing him to do it. "he ordered a plastic explosive composition known as C-4 and other expl…

Let’s say FBI played matchmaker between two guys. One with C-4 and another with intent. Almost at the end, they flip one of the guys, which explains the multiple CHS in this story. They arrest the more-convictable one.

How can you tell this scenario apart from an Oklahoma City?

Re: Man arrested for attempting to destroy Nashville power site

#18

Post by [deleted] »

dpc_01234 wrote: post #2

Isn't it always the same story? FBI targets some mentally unstable, near mentally challenged dude, feeds him some propaganda, gives him ideas and encourages him to do some terrorist stuff, then they arrest him claiming huge victory? The guy literally wouldn't be able to do any of that stuff if it wasn't for undercover agents pushing him to do it. "he ordered a plastic explosive composition known as C-4 and other expl…

[deleted]

Re: Man arrested for attempting to destroy Nashville power site

#19

Post by h2odragon »

0dayz wrote: post #8
dpc_01234 wrote: post #2

Isn't it always the same story? FBI targets some mentally unstable, near mentally challenged dude, feeds him some propaganda, gives him ideas and encourages him to do some terrorist stuff, then they arrest him claiming huge victory? The guy literally wouldn't be able to do any of that stuff if it wasn't for undercover agents pushing him to do it. "he ordered a plastic explosive composition known as C-4 and other expl…

So this in your opinion is a more rational explanation than: the man believes in white supremacy which has movements advocating accelerationism?

The FBI has a long, documented history of manufacturing its headline terrorism cases from whole cloth. Not just the recent cases like the Bundy bullshit; all the way back before the Black Panthers.

occam's razor and a complete lack of actual white supremacists on the ground suggests this is another example of same.

Re: Man arrested for attempting to destroy Nashville power site

#20

Post by dpc_01234 »

MaxikCZ wrote: post #4
dpc_01234 wrote: post #2

Isn't it always the same story? FBI targets some mentally unstable, near mentally challenged dude, feeds him some propaganda, gives him ideas and encourages him to do some terrorist stuff, then they arrest him claiming huge victory? The guy literally wouldn't be able to do any of that stuff if it wasn't for undercover agents pushing him to do it. "he ordered a plastic explosive composition known as C-4 and other expl…

Idk. If an undercover FBI agent can convince you to order C4 with intent to blow up infrastructure, who says someone else couldnt. Id rather it be an agent locking him up, than real seller, while an agent dont notice.

Encouraging someone to commit a crime seems quite immoral to me. Somehow the government always find a way to justify their immoral behavior, and I don't buy it.
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