The way I understand it... If Alice owns land and sells to Bob with some restrictions, that means Alice is still maintaining some ownership of the land. And the price that Bob pays is discounted from the otherwise fair market value, because it has those restrictions on it. Then, if Bob sells it to Charlie, Alice still has an ownership stake (logically speaking) from the restrictions (whether it is land use, or minera…
Alice is not maintaining ownership of the land at all once it is sold to Bob. She owns specific rights separate from the ownership of the land.
Albertsons kills rural grocers with land use restrictions
211–220 of 321 posts
Re: Albertsons kills rural grocers with land use restrictions
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you mean free market? Because I feel like land use restrictions are antithetical to a free market. In which case, your comment makes no sense.
The restrictions are contracts between two parties, not the state imposing them, so it's 100% the free market. The state meddling in the market would be if two parties agree to a contract, and then one party gets the state to pass a law that changes the terms of the contract to the benefit of one party. Like 'right to work laws,' for example.
Re: Albertsons kills rural grocers with land use restrictions
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you identify such a rule?
https://www.ccfj.net/HOAFLevict6yearold.html 55-AND-OVER COMMUNITY WANTS TO EVICT FAMILY WITH 6-YEAR-OLD
And we not just make lawful but even encourage the creation of housing intended for aging adults: https://www.hud.gov/program_offices/fair_housing_equal_opp/f...
Re: Albertsons kills rural grocers with land use restrictions
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The HOA fined them before they moved into the house for having goose poop in their back yard. It's not as dramatic as it sounds. the house was owned by _someone_ before they moved in. at _some_ point the guano was left and the HOA found it (whether that alleged violation cited done in a good-faith effort is irrelevant). The HOA applied their process, and at _some point_ ownership changed. Leaving your sister with t…
HOAs’ most redeeming feature is they serve to coarsely segregate people who like to live under HOAs from people who don’t.
Re: Albertsons kills rural grocers with land use restrictions
#215Re: Albertsons kills rural grocers with land use restrictions
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
> an HOA can force you to paint over the mural on your garage whereas a city government could not*. Zoning ordinances (which are the closest analogy to HOA CC&Rs) restrict all sorts of expression but have been held lawful as long as they can be characterized as a time/place/manner restriction. See https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/zoning-laws/ for a pretty good case law overview.
So, dumb question / political hobby horse riding in: if neighborhood restrictions on political speech are considered a time/place/manner restriction, why doesn't that logic also foreclose the majority opinion in McCutcheon v. FEC [0]? How are campaign contribution limits not a time/place/manner restriction? If money is speech, then me giving a million dollars to a Senator should be analogous to me with a megaphone sh…
Also, core political speech (and its financing, subject to concerns over corruption) such as electoral or issue advocacy is considered sacrosanct by the American legal system and so government prohibitions on it will receive significantly stricter scrutiny.
Re: Albertsons kills rural grocers with land use restrictions
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://www.ccfj.net/HOAFLevict6yearold.html 55-AND-OVER COMMUNITY WANTS TO EVICT FAMILY WITH 6-YEAR-OLD
State law enforces age restrictions on property in many circumstances. Adults can’t enter school property without registering with the main office. State law prohibits entry into bars and cannabis shops for people under certain ages. State law can prohibit minors from entering adult-oriented shops. And we not just make lawful but even encourage the creation of housing intended for aging adults: https://www.hud.gov/pr…
Re: Albertsons kills rural grocers with land use restrictions
#218If someone bought land with a deed restriction against locating a grocery store there, and they did locate a grocery store there, what would happen? Who has the right to enforce that restriction? Could it be overridden as a antitrust violation? That happened with US vs. Eastern Mushroom Marketing (2005). [1] Eastern Mushroom Marketing was leasing, or buying options to lease, competing mushroom farms, and shutting the…
1. Courts do not consider hypotheticals. In order to get the issue before a court, you have to actually buy the land and actually get sued over it.
2. Most people in a position to start up new grocery stores barely have enough capital to start one store, and cannot afford to tie it up in litigation for the next five to ten years.
3. Those in a position to attack the deed restriction are other large chains, who all have class solidarity and would never dare of attacking their own business practices.
Sometimes the logic behind #3 breaks - usually when a business in one industry tries to expand horizontally into other industries. This used to be a lot more common back when we had functioning caps on business consolidation, but now pretty much everyone owns everyone else. And sometimes someone decides to commit financial suicide, breaking the logic behind #2. But that brings us to the next reason:
4. Courts really, really do not like getting people out of contracts, even - and especially - really, really unfair ones.
Because...
0. Courts do not want to be arbiters of fairness, because fairness is arbitrary. Laws and contracts carry the illusion of impartiality, which is often good enough to trick otherwise bright minds into getting lost in the weeds of caselaw and clauses instead of asking "Hey, aren't we playing into someone else's hands"?
Re: Albertsons kills rural grocers with land use restrictions
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm having a hard time parsing what you mean. Are you saying "capitalism did it therefore this is good" and suggesting that people disagreeing are victims of "propaganda"?
Capitalism is intrinsically evil. I'll never defend a socioeconomic system of oppression.
Re: Albertsons kills rural grocers with land use restrictions
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't buy your property tax rationale. You would end up with people paying property tax for their gym memberships and apartment rentals. Those too are contractual encumbrances that would impact a buyer
> You would end up with people paying property tax for their gym memberships and apartment rentals. Economic theory on tax incidence says otherwise. Land, being inelastic, takes the tax burden. Land tax cannot be passed on to tenants or businesses.
Correct, and the parent post is proposing taxes on things other than the land itself.
If I sell rights to hike across my private property, or make a contract with nature conservancy not to chop down my trees, I still have the land (and pay taxes).
To make the nature conservancy pay property taxes as well for contract rights they own is just like having a tenant pay for private use of my house, or a consumer for a shared access right to my gym.