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Colorado scrambles to change voting-system passwords after accidental leak

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Re: Colorado scrambles to change voting-system passwords after accidental leak

#641

Please correct me where I'm mistaken. * This password list has been public for a long time, and is easy to access: hidden excel column on a public spreadsheet. * BIOS access means the intruder can change boot devices, boot their own OS, infect the BIOS with a virus, change boot devices back, compromise the vote host OS. * Keycard security isn't tight security. Any amature physical penetration tester would just use a…

Here is a video explaining Colorado's voting system:

https://vimeo.com/842943160

It has a surprisingly(?) low view count for how riled up everyone is about all this.

If you want more insight into this system, here is a test plan from August of this year on the Election Assistance Commission's website:

https://www.eac.gov/sites/default/files/2024-08/ClearVote%20...

It also has a list of bug fixes like:

> Changed the ClearCount API to require authentication before uploading files (such as ballot images and tabulation results) to the server.

And software details like:

- MySQL 8

- Ubuntu 20

- Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021

- Windows Enterprise IoT 21H2 release

- Python 3

- CIS SCAP Ubuntu 20.04 revision 1.1.0

Here is a summary of an audit done on a previous version last year:

https://elections.ny.gov/system/files/documents/2023/10/clea...

Re: Colorado scrambles to change voting-system passwords after accidental leak

#642
post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It avoids dangling chads and improperly filled bubbles which were both used to steal the 2000 presidential election. I have never used such a machine but the UX could be a lot clearer than the analog filp-and-punch machines used in Florida in 2000. I don’t love software in the voting process but printing the choices is verifiable and reduces ambiguity in the voting process.

It seems like quite a stretch to say the 2000 election was stolen. There were definitely ballot issues, but Gore challenged it and ultimately decided of his own accord to concede. He could have continued the challenge and drawn the process out, throwing in throwing in the towel to allow the process to end was his choice, it wasn't stolen.

When the Supreme Court rules the outcome instead of the voters, and even goes so far as to stress that their actions can't ever be used as precedent in any other matter, it's a uh.. yeah.

Idk I think something was stolen from over half the voters.

Re: Colorado scrambles to change voting-system passwords after accidental leak

#643
post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably a technicality, but he did still decide to concede. The Supreme Court only ended his specific bid for a recount, they didn't call the election winner or end his campaign.

Definitely a technicality, and interesting only because he chose country over personal ambition. The Supreme Court slammed the door in his face. He could have kept fighting but every available path was even more ugly than what he and the country already endured.

Only since 2020 has it become acceptable/normal/typical/strategy to take your battle against democracy itself.

At least so blatantly visibly explicitly and shamelessly.

Re: Colorado scrambles to change voting-system passwords after accidental leak

#644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every ballot should have a UUID that the voter takes with them (or make it a hash of their voter registration number or something). As soon as the ballot is processed, the results are posted to a public place. Voters can then confirm their ballot was recorded accurately. Opening the door for vote bribery or voter intimidation. $1,000 for every tag proving you voted for my candidate. If you don't prove you voted for…

You can already do that today by having people take a photo of their ballot. Or just buy their signed but otherwise blank mail-in ballot and complete it at gangster HQ. Or give them the money and don't require proof at all, because most people will just do what they agreed to do. This doesn't happen today because it isn't scalable and is easy to get caught and prosecuted. Electronic manipulation is more appealing bec…

Taking a photo of the ballot is illegal. Also, one can just always strike the ballot before putting it in the machine after having the completed ballot. In some places of mail in ballots it's possible to cancel the mail in ballots and vote in person after.

Re: Colorado scrambles to change voting-system passwords after accidental leak

#645
post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure there are more than 20,000 polling workers in the USA, so no, it's not 99.9% who go home and trust. And most importantly, for every republican there is a democrat and vice versa, in every polling place, auditing the process in real time. And the reason you can fix this at the polling station level is simple: as long as the entire state is not captured by a single party (in which case no real elections…

Thank you for engaging point by point. Let’s look: 1) Easy to check by whom? With paper, it’s a bunch of people yelling to the news they saw discrepancies. In USA, we have probably the most expensive election in the world and we heard it all in 2020 from sour Republicans. To this day many people believe the election wasn’t secure and was “stolen”, including with physical ballots being shipped in, etc. On the one hand…

Ultimately none of these details matter given the elephant in the room: you're voting on some app using your private key, and using some app to check with your private key if the vote has been correctly registered. But you have 0 way of knowing if the system is using this data in the way it was presented. For all the info you have access to, the system can just as well work like this:

1. You cast your vote using the private key

2. This gets registered on a server, it remembers "this person voted for X"

3. When you ask the system "who is my vote registered for?" the system tells you "X"

4. When computing the totals used to decide the election, the system returns 90% Y, 10% X, regardless of the actual votes cast.

Now, this very simplistic scheme would be easily defeated by asking them to publish the whole database of votes. But that would just break the anonymity guarantee of the election, so it is a no-go. And if they destroy the relationship between your vote and your private key, then again you can't confirm anything.

By the way, because you were citing Estonia's e-voting, I read up on it a little: they have all of these problems, and more. For now, people choose to trust the government, I assume and hope rightfully. But their e-voting system relies entirely on secure client devices, it relies entirely on trust that the servers are running the published source code, it relies on the proprietary closed-source client app being trustworthy. And people have even hacked their own vote to show that it's possible, which their supreme court found is not a problem with the election, since it was still their own vote. They barely even have some form of verifiability, and even that is relatively new.

I have no doubt that if a pro-Russia party had a realistic chance at winning (such that the populace and the incombent government would accept the results of an election where they won), Russian state actors would hack their systems and seek to get their people elected (whether they would succeed is of course hard to say). As would the USA if, say, a Latin American state used electronic voting and had an election where the decision was important enough. Or China in Africa, or Israel in the Middle East, etc.

> I think we both know that a corrupt government would not want to secure elections with merkle trees and publish them online. Too much chance of being caught, and they’d have no way to fudge the results reliably.

I think you seriously don't understand what a sham election is, what people know about it, and why it is done. Sham elections don't use semi-sophisticated means of voter fraud that could be thwarted by a better voting scheme. They don't have corrupt officials surreptitiously changing or adding a few votes.

They are entirely ceremonial affairs, where both the people voting and all of the officials know what the results will show beforehand. Often there aren't even options on the ballot. Even if there are, people choosing the wrong option will be threatened, possibly arrested for political crimes, etc. Everyone in countries with sham elections is well aware their vote doesn't matter, or it only matters in so far as the wrong vote can be like wearing an "I hate Big Brother" hat out on the streets in 1984.

The purpose of a mock election is to have some semblance of a normal electoral process to have a minimum of plausible deniability to facetiously claim you are following a democratic process. If people overall believed that the right way to do elections is electronically and by publishing a Merkle tree of the results, corrupt governments would hold sham electronic elections and publish made up Merkle trees.

You'll then have stories from journalists going and asking for people to compare their votes against the public tree, and seeing their votes are different. Just like today you have journalists coming back with stories of entire villages voting for the dear leader when local villagers say they didn't even enter the polling station. And it will matter just as little: the ritual of the election is the only thing that matters.

Re: Colorado scrambles to change voting-system passwords after accidental leak

#646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think domestic abusers try to control their partners' right to vote under threat of physical violence? What parts of the country have you lived in?

I am open to the idea that it is possible , but many things are possible. I'm asking you to share information that supports your assertion. You still haven't done so. It appears you're dodging the question. Do you have documented examples or data, or not?

I didn't ask if it's possible. I asked whether you think it happens.

I suspect you can't answer that question directly because the answer is self-evident and destructive to your case.

Anyway, here are a few anecdotes: https://restlessnetwork.com/domestic-abuse-is-a-voter-suppre...

Inb4 "those are anecdotes!" And then subsequent refusal to answer the point blank question of whether you believe it happens or not, for aforementioned reasons.

Re: Colorado scrambles to change voting-system passwords after accidental leak

#647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is she unable to vote? Virginia has same day registration, so it would seem like a non-issue for a citizen.

I have to assume same day registration would require documentation to (re) prove your citizenship. If you can't find your birth certificate or similar on that day it would be an issue that your previously valid registration was removed and you aren't able to go through the process again in one day.

Typically not. Just an ID (depending on state, might require a photo, might not) and a sworn affidavit that you are eligible (ie a citizen, not a felon in some states, etc). The ballot would be provisional and the board of elections runs a more thorough check after the fact. The voter gets a phone number and transaction ID to check back to see their status.

But, as I've noted elsewhere, while this is an option in VA, it isn't in all states (the same-day reg part - they all have some form of provisional ballot). And it creates friction and uncertainty among the electorate. If your state sent you a letter that said you were ineligible, would you jump through hoops to prove them wrong, or would you punt this cycle and fix the issue later? The latter is what the GOP hopes will happen, effectively disenfranchising a specific group of left-leaning voters (most immigrant groups lean left to some extent).

Edit to add - states that have RealID implemented (not sure if they all do yet), all the paperwork required to get the RealID stamp on your DL would prove your citizenship as well, so that's on record with the state. In the case of the 1600 voters in VA, they all have pre-RealID licenses (and many have naturalized in the time since their DL was issued). But, quite a few were selected erroneously based on scant evidence.

Re: Colorado scrambles to change voting-system passwords after accidental leak

#648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can already do that today by having people take a photo of their ballot. Or just buy their signed but otherwise blank mail-in ballot and complete it at gangster HQ. Or give them the money and don't require proof at all, because most people will just do what they agreed to do. This doesn't happen today because it isn't scalable and is easy to get caught and prosecuted. Electronic manipulation is more appealing bec…

Taking a photo of the ballot is illegal. Also, one can just always strike the ballot before putting it in the machine after having the completed ballot. In some places of mail in ballots it's possible to cancel the mail in ballots and vote in person after.

It's different per state, most allow it: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/...

Re: Colorado scrambles to change voting-system passwords after accidental leak

#649
post #631
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just use paper, and count by hand on the day. You need to present an election system that will convince Joe Q. Public, who is almost certainly not as tech-literate as this forum, is probably not even white-collar or university educated, and likely also suspicious of globalisation. "Tamper-proof Indian system-on-a-chip" does not have that property. Otherwise you get increasingly unhinged arguments over the election re…

Ironically in the US the current nonsense about election fraud might push electronic ballots further. If you're going to cry wolf over paper ballots then you might as well do whatever you want, literally nothing will ever satisfy them. There's no sense even trying to appease.

"nonsense about election fraud"... the very real election fraud happening all over the place, just as it did last election (in which the legal truths are just being made public)?
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