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An Update on Apple M1/M2 GPU Drivers

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Re: An Update on Apple M1/M2 GPU Drivers

#211

Post by aseipp »

skoczko wrote: post #153

Since bringing modern OpenGL and Vulkan onto Apple Silicon is impossible without an emulation layer anyway, could, theoretically, a native Metal API for Linux be created? Or is Metal too ingrained in macOS SDKs? MoltenVK is attempting to solve the same issues Alyssa was talking about in her talk [1, the last comment on the issue is hers] [1] https://github.com/KhronosGroup/MoltenVK/issues/1524

I don't see why not. There are, after all, implementations of DirectX for Linux too, which is how Proton works. But I'm not sure if it would be better to build that API as a layer on top of Vulkan (completely "client side", like MoltenVK or dxvk do) or actually integrate it more deeply into Mesa. The first is certainly easier to start with, I guess.

Re: An Update on Apple M1/M2 GPU Drivers

#212

Post by Dah00n »

windowsrookie wrote: post #180
attendant3446 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the opposite experience. Apple is incredibly difficult and expensive to repair. But I have been pleasantly surprised by the longevity and repairability of ThinkPads. I like those Apple M processors, but I know where I'm spending my money.

Yes, MacBooks are generally more expensive to repair, but they also tend to not need repairs. It’s quite normal to hear from people who are using their 7+ year old MacBook without any issues and are still perfectly happy with it. I myself still use my 2018 MacBook Pro as my main device. When considering longevity, I will agree that Thinkpads are probably the only device that can compete with MacBooks. But there are t…

>MacBooks are going to be lighter

That sounds like an Apple sound bite, and it is wrong, compared to pretty much any MacBook competitor out there...

Re: An Update on Apple M1/M2 GPU Drivers

#213

Post by reaperducer »

duxup wrote: post #165
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I noticed in the M4 macbook announcement comments was how many people were happy with their M1 laptop, and second, how many people kept their Macbooks for nearly a decade; these devices are built to last, and I applaud long-term support from Apple itself and the Linux community. Second, since it's open source, Apple themselves are probably paying attention; I didn't read the whole thing because it's going o…

People talk about Apple prices being higher but the longevity of their devices really erases that price difference for me. I still have an old iPhone 8 that I test with that runs well, I’ve had numerous Android devices die in that timeframe, slow to a crawl, or at best their performance is erratic.

I still have an old iPhone 8 that I test with that runs well

I have an iPhone 3G from 2008 that is currently playing music as I work.

After 16 years, it still syncs perfectly with Apple Music on the current version of macOS.

Unfortunately, since it can't handle modern encryption, I can't get it to connect to any wifi access point.

Re: An Update on Apple M1/M2 GPU Drivers

#214

Post by Dah00n »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #150
kristianp wrote: post #127

I was going going to say she should work for Valve to help get Steam working on Linux on Macs, but it seems she already does? [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alyssa_Rosenzweig#Career

Nice; that raises some interesting questions as to what Valve is planning here. Steam/Proton on macs would make a lot of sense for them hard as it may be. People booting linux on their macs to play games would really annoy Apple probably.

>Steam/Proton on macs would make a lot of sense ..... would really annoy Apple probably

Sounds like a win-win situation.

Re: An Update on Apple M1/M2 GPU Drivers

#215

Post by Dah00n »

scottlamb wrote: post #14

> tessellator.cl is the most unhinged file of my career ...so far. The presenter is only 23 apparently. Maybe I'm speaking only for myself here, but I think career unhingedness does not go down over time as much as one might hope. In all seriousness, she does really impressive work, so when she says this 2,000 lines of C++ is inscrutable, that gives one pause. Glad it's working nonetheless.

>The presenter is only 23 apparently

Yes, well, from the article:

>That works, but ""tessellator.cl is the most unhinged file of my career""; doing things that way was also the most unhinged thing she has done in her career ""and I'm standing up here in a witch hat for the fifth year in a row"". The character debuted in the exact same room in 2019 when she was 17 years old, she recalled.

17. That's impressive.

Re: An Update on Apple M1/M2 GPU Drivers

#216

Post by galleywest200 »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #150
kristianp wrote: post #127

I was going going to say she should work for Valve to help get Steam working on Linux on Macs, but it seems she already does? [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alyssa_Rosenzweig#Career

Nice; that raises some interesting questions as to what Valve is planning here. Steam/Proton on macs would make a lot of sense for them hard as it may be. People booting linux on their macs to play games would really annoy Apple probably.

There was a Proton for ARM test build [1] that got talked about recently, your guess is entirely possible.

[1] https://www.tomshardware.com/video-games/pc-gaming/steam-lik...

Re: An Update on Apple M1/M2 GPU Drivers

#217

Post by majormajor »

windowsrookie wrote: post #180
attendant3446 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the opposite experience. Apple is incredibly difficult and expensive to repair. But I have been pleasantly surprised by the longevity and repairability of ThinkPads. I like those Apple M processors, but I know where I'm spending my money.

Yes, MacBooks are generally more expensive to repair, but they also tend to not need repairs. It’s quite normal to hear from people who are using their 7+ year old MacBook without any issues and are still perfectly happy with it. I myself still use my 2018 MacBook Pro as my main device. When considering longevity, I will agree that Thinkpads are probably the only device that can compete with MacBooks. But there are t…

I haven't gotten a new Thinkpad since the 25th anniversary one but that was the last I bought while using a few as daily drivers for a decade since 2008.

The ultimate issue was that the batteries degraded on them on incredibly fast. I don't know if that's been fixed, but the ease of replacing (at least one of) the batteries was more than canceled out by the short life compared to a Mac.

Re: An Update on Apple M1/M2 GPU Drivers

#218

Post by duxup »

BirAdam wrote: post #171
duxup wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People talk about Apple prices being higher but the longevity of their devices really erases that price difference for me. I still have an old iPhone 8 that I test with that runs well, I’ve had numerous Android devices die in that timeframe, slow to a crawl, or at best their performance is erratic.

I am not so sure. I had a Pentium4 eMachine that made it all the way to around 2012. The same kind of life for my first Athlon64 machine from the same company. In both cases, the machines ran Linux, and they still work today. They were only retired because no meaningful software could run on them any longer. My PowerBook G4 got no where near that longevity, and owners of late era Intel MacBooks are probably going to…

Longevity (and certainly not performance over time) is not something I've ever herd associated with an eMachine. I think that machine might be a outlier.

Re: An Update on Apple M1/M2 GPU Drivers

#219

Post by [deleted] »

jms55 wrote: post #84
nfriedly wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, Hardware Unboxed recently did a review of 30-some games comparing the visuals with and without ray tracing, and the conclusion for the majority of them was that it wasn't worth it. There were only maybe half a dozen games where the ray tracing was an unambiguous improvement. So I think calling it "a bit of a gimmick" is accurate for many of the games that shipped in, even if not all of them.

You're looking at years of careful artist and engineer work to get something that looks almost as good as pathtraced visuals. The fact that it's so good without any raytracing is a credit to the developers. Replacing all that effort with raytracing and having one unified lighting system would be a _major_ time saver, and allows much more dynamic lighting than was previously possible. So yeah some current games don't…

[deleted]

Re: An Update on Apple M1/M2 GPU Drivers

#220

Post by crossroadsguy »

attendant3446 wrote: post #170
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I noticed in the M4 macbook announcement comments was how many people were happy with their M1 laptop, and second, how many people kept their Macbooks for nearly a decade; these devices are built to last, and I applaud long-term support from Apple itself and the Linux community. Second, since it's open source, Apple themselves are probably paying attention; I didn't read the whole thing because it's going o…

I have the opposite experience. Apple is incredibly difficult and expensive to repair. But I have been pleasantly surprised by the longevity and repairability of ThinkPads. I like those Apple M processors, but I know where I'm spending my money.

Indeed. However once you need the repair it's so daunting. Now factor in non-developed nations (prices are usually same or more there as well for both parts and service) and it's just insane. I had a 7-8 year old macbook air that I had bought for ~60K INR and I had to replace its SSD. Just because it was do be done for an Apple device even the outside repairperson charged ~16K (Apple "authorised" service centre quoted 28K + taxes with a straight face). That outside repair was way too costly in late 2022 for a 128GB SSD. Same goes for their other devices.

So what's to be done? Buy their insanely costly "limited" extended warranty for "2 more" years? And let's say we do that, then? I am sure there is an argument for that.

I am typing this from a M1 MacBook Pro and if it dies I am really not sure whether I will even be able to get it repaired without "feeling" fleeced, or might as well move back to the normal laptop + Linux world and know that a laptop repair will never be a "minor bankruptcy" event ;-)

No, "but Apple devices last long" doesn't cut it. So do non-Apple devices, yes they do. And if they need repair you don't at all fret w/ or w/o warranty.

I am not sure how many here on HN will be able to connect with this but that hanging Damocles' sword is not a nice thing to have around when you use a costly Apple device.

Making it easy and cheap/affordable for their devices to be repaired should not be an option left for OEMs.

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