Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

#21

Post by crazygringo » Fri, Nov 01, 2024, 2:25 PM UTC

whynotminot wrote: post #10

hanniabu wrote: post #6

Good enough to be used for gaming? Really want Apple to get into that because dealing with Windows sucks.

They’ve always been good enough for gaming. The problem has just been whether or not publishers would bother releasing the games. It’s unfortunate that Apple can’t seem to really build enough momentum here to become a gaming destination.

It has always baffled me why Apple doesn't take gaming seriously. It's another revenue stream, it would sell more Macs. It's profit.

Is it just some weird cultural thing? Or is there some kind of genuine technical reason for it, like it would involve some kind of tradeoffs around security or limiting architecture changes or something?

Especially with the M-series chips, it feels like they had the opportunity to make a major gaming push and bring publishers on board... but just nothing, at least with AAA games. They're content with cartoony content in Apple Arcade solely on mobile.

Re: Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

#22

Post by macintux » Fri, Nov 01, 2024, 2:25 PM UTC

yalogin wrote: post #14

whynotminot wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’ve always been good enough for gaming. The problem has just been whether or not publishers would bother releasing the games. It’s unfortunate that Apple can’t seem to really build enough momentum here to become a gaming destination.

I think they will get there in time. They like to focus on things and not spread themselves thin. They always wanted to get the gaming market share but AI is taking all their time now.

I'm not sure how many chances they'll get to persuade developers that this time they really mean it. It sounds like Apple Arcade is a flop.

Re: Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

#23

Post by api » Fri, Nov 01, 2024, 2:26 PM UTC

carlgreene wrote: post #5

I have been out of the PC world for a long time, but in terms of performance efficiency, is Apple running away from the competition? Or are AMD and Intel producing similar performing chips at the same wattage?

There have always been higher performing x64 chips than the M series but they use several times more power to get that.

Apple seems to be reliably annihilating everyone on performance per watt at the high end of the performance curve. It makes sense since the M series are mobile CPUs on ‘roids.

Re: Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

#24

Post by ceejayoz » Fri, Nov 01, 2024, 2:26 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #21

whynotminot wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’ve always been good enough for gaming. The problem has just been whether or not publishers would bother releasing the games. It’s unfortunate that Apple can’t seem to really build enough momentum here to become a gaming destination.

It has always baffled me why Apple doesn't take gaming seriously. It's another revenue stream, it would sell more Macs. It's profit. Is it just some weird cultural thing? Or is there some kind of genuine technical reason for it, like it would involve some kind of tradeoffs around security or limiting architecture changes or something? Especially with the M-series chips, it feels like they had the opportunity to make…

> It has always baffled me why Apple doesn't take gaming seriously.

They aren't really the ones that have to.

Re: Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

#25

Post by LorenDB » Fri, Nov 01, 2024, 2:26 PM UTC

carlgreene wrote: post #5

I have been out of the PC world for a long time, but in terms of performance efficiency, is Apple running away from the competition? Or are AMD and Intel producing similar performing chips at the same wattage?

AMD's latest Strix Point mobile chips are on par with M3 silicon: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Z8WKR0VHfJw

Re: Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

#26

Post by ttul » Fri, Nov 01, 2024, 2:26 PM UTC

carlgreene wrote: post #5

I have been out of the PC world for a long time, but in terms of performance efficiency, is Apple running away from the competition? Or are AMD and Intel producing similar performing chips at the same wattage?

My assessment is that ARM is running away from the competition. Apple is indeed designing the chip, but without the ARM architecture, Apple would have nothing to work with. This is not to diminish the incredible work of Apple’s VLSI team who put the chip architecture together and deftly navigated the Wild West of the fabrication landscape, but if you look at the specialized server chip side, it’s now dominated by ARM IP. I think ARM is the real winner here.

Re: Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

#27

Post by mortenjorck » Fri, Nov 01, 2024, 2:26 PM UTC

post_break wrote: post #8

What's crazy is that the M4 Pro is in the Mac mini, something so tiny can handle that chip. The Mac Studio with the M4 Max will be awesome but the Mini is remarkable.

Indeed, the $1599 M4 Pro Mac mini beats the current $3999 M2 Ultra Mac Studio on GeekBench 6 multi-core: https://www.macrumors.com/2024/10/31/m4-pro-chip-benchmark-r...

Re: Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

#28

Post by jsheard » Fri, Nov 01, 2024, 2:26 PM UTC

whynotminot wrote: post #10

hanniabu wrote: post #6

Good enough to be used for gaming? Really want Apple to get into that because dealing with Windows sucks.

They’ve always been good enough for gaming. The problem has just been whether or not publishers would bother releasing the games. It’s unfortunate that Apple can’t seem to really build enough momentum here to become a gaming destination.

Apple's aggressive deprecation policies haven't done them any favors when it comes to games, they expect software to be updated to their latest ISAs and APIs in perpetuity but games are rarely supported forever. In many cases the developers don't even exist anymore. A lot of native Mac game ports got wiped out by 32bit being EOL'ed, and it'll probably happen again when they inevitably phase out Rosetta 2 and OpenGL support.

Re: Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

#29

Post by tempest_ » Fri, Nov 01, 2024, 2:27 PM UTC

carlgreene wrote: post #5

I have been out of the PC world for a long time, but in terms of performance efficiency, is Apple running away from the competition? Or are AMD and Intel producing similar performing chips at the same wattage?

Their margins tend to allow them to always use the latest TSMC process so they will often be pretty good just based on that. They are also ARM chips which obviously have been more focused on efficiency historically.

Re: Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

#30

Post by rswail » Fri, Nov 01, 2024, 2:27 PM UTC

yalogin wrote: post #14

whynotminot wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’ve always been good enough for gaming. The problem has just been whether or not publishers would bother releasing the games. It’s unfortunate that Apple can’t seem to really build enough momentum here to become a gaming destination.

I think they will get there in time. They like to focus on things and not spread themselves thin. They always wanted to get the gaming market share but AI is taking all their time now.

Given that a Mac mini with an M4 is basically the same size and shape as an Apple TV, they could make a new Apple TV that was a gaming console as well.

Why is the Apple TV only focused on passive entertainment?