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Wait Until 8th

waituntil8th.org

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Re: Wait Until 8th

#131

Post by tqi »

cmeacham98 wrote: post #15

I'm going to post the same comment I did last year when this showed up on HN ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36207142 ), as checking the website it still seems to be true: Literally none of the evidence on the website's own "Why" page supports their suggestion: https://www.waituntil8th.org/why-wait All of the studies (bonus points for linking to news articles instead of directly to the studies) have something…

The path they took to get to this pledge feels very similar to the path anti-vaccination advocates took (ie something intuitively "feels" bad -> look for evidence to support that). If a study came out that showed evidence that having a smartphone at an early age actually improved educational outcomes, do you think these people would reverse their position? I would guess not because above all else, this is a value judgement ("These devices are quickly changing childhood for children. Playing outdoors, spending time with friends, reading books and hanging out with family is happening a lot less to make room for hours of snap chatting, instagramming, and catching up on YouTube.").

And to be clear, there is nothing wrong with a value judgement. But trying to foist your values onto others is not something feel the need to support.

Re: Wait Until 8th

#132

Post by ziddoap »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #93
rvba wrote: post #66

I find it fascinating, that hacker news, the literal community for people tinkering with stuff seems to be full of people who want to gut their kids instead of teaching them how to use stuff responsibly. Probably tons of people here know how to code since they've learned on their own. Reality is that the kid will be a loser / outsider due to no phone. Also kids have a lot of time that could be used to learn stuff. An…

> Reality is that the kid will be a loser / outsider due to no phone. That is supposition, not reality, and there are parents here who have shared their experience with kids having a healthy social life without a phone. More importantly, a very important role of parents is to make good decisions for their kids when the kids are still too immature to do that. "But all my friends are doing it" is literal child reasonin…

>and there are parents here who have shared their experience with kids having a healthy social life without a phone.

And there are others who have shared their experiences of responsibly teaching their kids how to coexist with technology. There's probably a lot more that aren't willing to say so, because they'll be roasted in the comments for being a "bad parent".

I don't let my kids have unfettered access to social media. But I let them have a smartphone. And I took the time initially, and continually, to have conversations about having a healthy relationship with technology.

Somehow this debate is always completely lacking in any sort of middle ground or nuance.

Re: Wait Until 8th

#133

Post by dpassens »

thebruce87m wrote: post #9

> Students in eighth grade are usually 13–14 years old. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_grade In case anyone else outside the US couldn’t find the actual age when scanning the site.

Is this really that US specific? Ages 6-7 seems to be pretty common for first grade¹, which gives you 13-14 for eighth.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_stage

Re: Wait Until 8th

#134

Post by Aeolun »

throwaway494932 wrote: post #76
lairv wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone has a different threshold for what they want from a dumb phone, some wants Google Maps, some think Youtube is ok, Google Chrome etc. which makes it hard to have a one true dumb phone. If you give access to the play store it's no longer a dumb phone The best way to have a dumb phone tailored to your needs is to take a cheap smartphone and make it dumb, either by using a different launcher, or a customized OS…

Isn't this what Family link [1] is for ? Or you can get an iPhone and use parental controls. My kids has a tablet and I get to decide what can be used and for how long, and nothing gets installed without my approval. [1] https://families.google/familylink/

Nothing gets installed without 2 approvals, and 3 confirmations with your passcode. I really wish they’d fix all that duplication.

Re: Wait Until 8th

#135

Post by computerdork »

mmcgaha wrote: post #25

Among my children, my oldest got an iphone for Christmas in 2007 when he was 17. The other four got them spread out over the following ten years but progressively younger in age. I cannot say that I see a big difference in their phone usage, grades, or social development. It seems to me that they all just got more attached to the phone the longer they had it. I am starting to see some push back from my 16-year-old af…

Very interesting. Was wondering, are there any differences in how independent they are at the same age? Have read that there is a possibility that the smartphone may be contributing to the development of children to be delayed by a year or two. For instance, are your younger children less interested in driving at the same age and doing things on their own.

... although, even if this is true, this could just be that kids seem to be more attached to their parents then they used to be (have read this as well).

Re: Wait Until 8th

#136

Post by Nition »

thebruce87m wrote: post #9

> Students in eighth grade are usually 13–14 years old. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_grade In case anyone else outside the US couldn’t find the actual age when scanning the site.

Weirdly the site actually clarifies that they mean end of 8th grade at the earliest, so more like 14-15 I think.

Re: Wait Until 8th

#137

Post by thebruce87m »

dpassens wrote: post #133
thebruce87m wrote: post #9

> Students in eighth grade are usually 13–14 years old. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_grade In case anyone else outside the US couldn’t find the actual age when scanning the site.

Is this really that US specific? Ages 6-7 seems to be pretty common for first grade¹, which gives you 13-14 for eighth. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_stage

In Scotland, the first year of school is Primary 1

We have P1-P7, then secondary S1 - S4, with S5 and S6 optional.

> Children start primary school aged between 4½ and 5½ depending on when the child's birthday falls.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Scotland

Re: Wait Until 8th

#138

Post by socksy »

Nition wrote: post #106
diputsmonro wrote: post #72

I know the site clarifies it, but the headline messaging on this is meaninglessly confusing. "Wait until 8th!" "Oh, you mean their 8th birthday?" "No, 8th grade!" "Oh, so wait until they're in 8th grade, got it!" "No no, until the end of the 8th grade, when they graduate middle school!" "Oh, so it's really wait until 9th" Just seems like this would be the beginning of every conversation and lead to a non-unified appr…

Agreed 100%. Additional factors on top of all those is some countries start year 1 at age five, and others at age 6, and of course there's a variety of actual ages within a grade as well. "Wait Until 9th" would have definitely helped a lot. "Wait until 14" might be even clearer. Or even "wait until high school".

I mean as a non American, I think this is one of the most American sites I've seen all week, and do not get the impression that they will particularly mind if it's ambiguous for other people in other countries

Re: Wait Until 8th

#139

Post by esquivalience »

diputsmonro wrote: post #72

I know the site clarifies it, but the headline messaging on this is meaninglessly confusing. "Wait until 8th!" "Oh, you mean their 8th birthday?" "No, 8th grade!" "Oh, so wait until they're in 8th grade, got it!" "No no, until the end of the 8th grade, when they graduate middle school!" "Oh, so it's really wait until 9th" Just seems like this would be the beginning of every conversation and lead to a non-unified appr…

"Let 'em whine until ninth" just didn't have the same ring to it.

Re: Wait Until 8th

#140

Post by Nition »

socksy wrote: post #138
Nition wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed 100%. Additional factors on top of all those is some countries start year 1 at age five, and others at age 6, and of course there's a variety of actual ages within a grade as well. "Wait Until 9th" would have definitely helped a lot. "Wait until 14" might be even clearer. Or even "wait until high school".

I mean as a non American, I think this is one of the most American sites I've seen all week, and do not get the impression that they will particularly mind if it's ambiguous for other people in other countries

That's fair, it's certainly very USA-centric (although they should still call it "Wait Until 9th"!).
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