Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid • Hacker News Board

Re: Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid

#751

Post by xp84 » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 6:50 PM UTC

Forgeties79 wrote: post #320

armada651 wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that even when there are easy, safe alternatives trying to avoid every little risk in your life will drive you crazy. This is a clear case where a regulator should step in and just ban these black plastic utensils in favor of their safe alternatives. That way you're not just protected from exposure in your own kitchen, but also when joining your friends for dinner.

Being deliberate about the materials you choose for your cookware is not the same as stressing out over every little risk in your life. For some people these are the materials that they use to prepare their food literally every day and one purchase will last years.

> one purchase will last years

Indeed. Although now I’m pretty annoyed about the 6 or so black plastic cooking utensils I received as a wedding gift nearly twenty years ago lasted this long, so I’ve been using them this whole time. Oh well, at least I don’t cook much :/

Re: Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid

#752

Post by 6510 » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 6:53 PM UTC

r00fus wrote: post #647

teractiveodular wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Metal spatulas cause damage to frying pans. How do I know which is worse, the plastic melting off my black spatula or the non-stick coating scraping off my frying pan? I suppose I could go cast iron, but I'm sure I can find a study saying those are terrible too.

I recently learned how to cook non-stick with my stainless steel pan [1]. Needless to say it's a bit more involved, but I felt more accomplished when I figured out how to cook with it. Pros: SS can go right in the dishwasher, it's safe & you can use metal spatula, no worry about loss of efficacy over the years. Cons: It takes a minute more to prep, harder to clean (sides/edges aren't non-stick) Personally, between th…

next level is cast iron, good luck

Re: Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid

#753

Post by hnfong » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 6:54 PM UTC

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #335

whoitwas wrote: post #292

After I learned about the harmful effects of Teflon, I became much more cautious about consumption. It's nearly impossible to avoid the toxins when eating out because wax has been replaced with synthetics that leach into food from packaging. Just use metal wood or glass. One thing I'm not aware of is if Pyrex or the other tempered glasses are safe or if they also contain plastic. That would be good to learn.

Does any of this matter in a normal life? Will I actually see actual difference if I throw away all my cook ware and replace it with non-non-stick ones and wooden utensils? What about pollutants in the air from car and industry exhaust? Is this cookware worse? Should we first consider moving somewhere else than worry about cookware? What about just the ingredients you cook with? Is using teflon worse than buying high…

TBH it might not matter in a normal life for the individual. But (as long as the claims have some truth too it) statistically, it definitely matters.

The "scares" are overwhelming only because you live in a society where things are (slightly) toxic by default, because those things are cheaper and can be engineered to barely pass safety standards.

We can and should change this situation. Hopefully not on the individual level, but at least public awareness is useful.

The "scares" are also overwhelming because some people are extreme in everything, for example the person who swears never to drink from a plastic cup. But it doesn't mean the opposite stance (i.e. drinking from plastic cups is good for you) is true. You can believe plastics are slightly bad for you without overreacting, and acknowledge that if it's feasible it's better to avoid them. Reacting emotionally to extremists isn't what a rational person would be doing.

Re: Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid

#754

Post by Moru » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 6:56 PM UTC

Arch-TK wrote: post #586

Moru wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We make coldbrew coffee in the fridge. No need to heat up the coffee until it is in your cup with some extra water and into the micro. And it taste a lot better than anything else I tried. And I didn't even drink coffee a year ago because it taste so bad. Now I can even drink it without milk! :-)

Some people like cold brew, others don't. I fall into the latter camp. Then again, the only things in the cold-water path of my machine are: - silicone gaskets - silicone grease - PTFE - silicone tubes - clear plastic water tank As for the hot path: - silicone gaskets - silicone grease - aluminium - steel - copper - brass - PTFE (in contact with steam)

I think Coldbrew is even more dependent on what coffee beans and roast you use, we have tried a few and they are very different. But so far I liked them all. Maybe you preffer the bitter taste of cooked coffee? That is something that is missing from all our tries with coldbrew.

Re: Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid

#755

Post by mkesper » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 6:57 PM UTC

Der_Einzige wrote: post #642

sickofparadox wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair to people, it is INCREDIBLY difficult to cope with the fact that a plurality or even most papers that come out may be found to be completely un-reproducible. For low stakes things like getting rid of a plastic spatula or cutting board, there is a sub-$20 cost to get rid of them and believe it is right (even if it ends up being wrong), while the cost of not believing and the paper being right is a massively…

This is so true. Trying to explain to lay people how garbage peer review is (I show them my accepted NeurIPS paper reviews as evidence of how bad it is) tough. Most people imagine that (especially at the highest levels) that folks are independently reproducing results or at least doing something more than running ChatGPT on the paper. It's exactly the opposite - peer review is a joke. The number one thing that made m…

I don't get what the cave allegory has to do with false incentives (creating papers for creating papers).

Re: Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid

#756

Post by kazinator » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 6:57 PM UTC

astura wrote: post #250

dotancohen wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just started cooking in an iron pan, and I love it. It's actually not significantly more difficult to clean once you learn to leave the seasoning on and get over the cultural conditioning of what clean is essentially. The cooking process it also far better, with the whole pan being uniformly hot and staying that way.

>and get over the cultural conditioning of what clean is essentially. Eww, gross. This is not necessary, you can (and should) actually clean your cast iron pans. I certainly clean mine.

Clean as in hot water and soap?

Or clean as in industrial degreaser or varnish stripper?

Re: Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid

#757

Post by bell-cot » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 6:59 PM UTC

bell-cot wrote: post #608

afh1 wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you cook on?

Stainless steel on the stovetop. Glass in the microwave. A mix of those in the oven. Occasionally well-seasoned cast iron.

Oops, forgot: Also enameled cast iron. And ceramic.

Re: Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid

#758

Post by teucris » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 7:02 PM UTC

timr wrote: post #718

genuinelydang wrote: post #699

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overheat your Teflon pan, take a good huff, wait a few hours and post that comment again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_fume_fever ”When PTFE is heated above 450 °C the pyrolysis products are different and inhalation may cause acute lung injury. Symptoms are flu-like (chills, headaches and fevers) with chest tightness and mild cough. Onset occurs about 4 to 8 hours after exposure to the pyrolysis products of…

> wait a few hours Indeed. When was the last time you left your nonstick pan sitting on a cooktop with nothing in it, for hours? If you're the kind of person to leave empty pans burning for that long, I'd be more worried about cognitive decline and/or the risk you'll die in a fire of your own making.

Mistakes happen all the time. Cooktops have terrible user interfaces. People need to juggle multiple things at once, especially parents.

Furthermore, the quote above merely states that the pan has to reach a specific temp, not be out for hours.

Re: Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid

#759

Post by epcoa » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 7:12 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #732

epcoa wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're linking to literally the lowest end builder grade piece of crap* non flat range, you even picked the one that doesn't have the oven window! I've even had near slumlords at least spring for the windowed glass top GE special when it was on sale. (I say crap, but that is unfair, having used these growing up, they are simple and basically won't break down and exceptionally easy to get parts for and repair [because…

ikea is for people who will settle for worse than builer grade so long as they can convince themselves it is better. sure it is better than walmart furniture and a lot of 'high end' is just as bad, but it isn't real quality. Rant over, I'm sure some who don't know better will challenge that, but I'm not responding. I expect my range to last for a few decades and I cook often. If I'm going to spend several thousand do…

> ikea is for people who will settle for worse than builer grade so long as they can convince themselves it is better. sure it is better than walmart furniture and a lot of 'high end' is just as bad, but it isn't real quality.

Irrelevant. I'm not debating the merits of Ikea furniture, but they do not produce appliances, they rebadge Electrolux, Whirlpool (Amana) and Frigidaire, and the models they are offering are simply not the most basic ones (though they have just the tier above - this gets you at least a fucking oven timer and lighted, windowed oven), that's just a fact.

I grew up with a Calrod cooktop, like non-stick cookware they are iconic post WW2 marketing Americana. Like Oscar Mayer bologna, they were considered suburban "luxury" and marketed as superior to gas (the marketing of gas superiority is whole other thing, but prior to inductive it was actually superior for most things, that's why it was/is the mainstay of the restaurant industry). https://thisoddhouseblog.wordpress.com/2012/08/15/electric-s... But I have no desire to go back to that. Terrible heat conductivity, slow response, imprecise temperature control, terribly inefficient especially in the summer (as a side effect, piss poor cooking power compared to even a domestic gas range, yet no ability to go as low). It's hard to overstate how much easier (if not just possible) to cook certain foods on something with precise wide range heat control whether it be gas or inductive.

Obviously people made do with these for years, and if one is happy with that level of functionality and convenience (especially at the lowest of the low end of features), and it allows them to prepare what they want, it's unlikely they'll appreciate any of the benefits of an inductive cooktop.

But it gives precise and rapidly changeable heat control, a radiant heater does not. This is important to people preparing more varied dishes. This sounds like this is simply of little benefit to you, because you still haven't mentioned what features on the current selection of inductive ranges is missing.

They're also wickedly more efficient because you're not radiating a ton of waste heat into the conditioned space (at least in summer and warm climates). There are people that cook and bake enough that the electricity of both the heating and the space cooling are a noticeable monthly expense. Not the primary benefit point though, true.

Re: Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid

#760

Post by alwayslikethis » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 7:13 PM UTC

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #431

alwayslikethis wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teflon is not very thermally conductive, so the bottom contacting the metal substrate may be at a significantly higher temperature than the top. Chemistry reactions have activation energies, and you can generally always trade temperature for time. If it happens in a minute at 260 C, it will still happen at 200 C, just slower.

> If it happens in a minute at 260 C, it will still happen at 200 C, just slower. I don't think that's particularly accurate unless you're considering the action of individual atoms. e.g. Water is considered to boil at 100°C but there will be some water evaporating at lower temperatures but this is a different process that only occurs at the surface. I don't think it's accurate to say that water is "slowly boiling" a…

The result is the same though. The water leaves the container and enters the atmosphere as vapor. You can call the former "decomposition", and the latter "leaching", but you are eating the degradation products either way.