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Jaywalking legalized in New York City

theguardian.com

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Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#311

Post by lancesells »

bsimpson wrote: post #148
nobody9999 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>New Yorkers don't have a concept of "jaywalking"; it's just "walking." As a general rule, I watch the cars and not the traffic lights. Mostly because many motorists (and NYC buses are the worst!) often don't pay attention to pedestrians, intersections or traffic lights. In fact, I'm more careful when walking through an intersection than in the middle of the street.

New York is probably the only place in the US where most of the drivers did not learn to drive here. It's the most international city in the US, and a disproportionate number of people who use the roads (taxis, delivery drivers, etc) grew up in places that have a traffic system very different that the US's. People in New York routinely run red lights, roll through crosswalks, ride in the shoulder - things that you mi…

If you were to respect things like lights and lanes in NYC you would never get anywhere. I believe the city is generally pretty safe when it comes to pedestrians. Usually deaths are late at night from truck drivers going way too fast in the outer boroughs.

This doesn't indicate cities but shows by state and NY is very low compared to others. The worst thing is deaths are up in the country and the "light truck" seems to be a leading factor: https://www.ghsa.org/resources/Pedestrians24

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#312

Post by lolinder »

zahlman wrote: post #235
gxonatano wrote: post #87

Let's not forget that jaywalking was essentially created by the automotive industry and its lobbyists, to make life more convenient for drivers. It started in car-heavy places like California, and eventually became a law virtually everywhere in the US, but was never really enforced in New York City, where most people walk or take public transit, rather than drive. If, like most New Yorkers, you walk several kilometer…

>like most New Yorkers, you walk several kilometers a day I don't think I can take this claim for granted.

3 km is only 1.9 miles, or just over half an hour of walking for most people. If you have a 0.95 mile commute you've already hit the several kilometers per day bar.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#314

Post by spcebar »

bitwize wrote: post #276
caekislove wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about ALL of Japan, but in Tokyo, pedestrians frequently ignore red lights and seeing cars with green lights waiting while a large group of jaywalkers is crossing in front of them is not an uncommon sight.

In Osaka, crossers formed a queue at the don't walk signal and crossed in an orderly fashion as soon as they got a walk -- not a moment before. They knew that as soon as the auto traffic got a green, it would go full bore and seemingly not stop for anyone or anything. Quite different from my time in Boston where the optimal strategy is to ignore the walk signal and cross when there was a significant gap in traffic --…

You might be talking about the intersection of Boylston and Tremont (if you went to a school by the common you know this light well). As a pedestrian it's a shitty light because of those drivers you're describing, as a driver it's a shitty intersection because the only time you can make the left turn is while pedestrians have the walk light, and that intersection is always so jam packed with people that you can wait multiple lights and still not be able to get through unless you're driving into the throngs of people. Boston is the worst place I've ever driven, in part because of the design of the streets and in part because of the god awful drivers.

That said, it's funny how much the culture of crossing illegally varies country to country and city to city. Having lived in a few northern cities and a few southern cities in the US, attitudes vary wildly. Where I currently live, people are very skittish about crosswalks in general and will usually wait for cars to go by, even if they have the right of way in the crossing. I would guess these behaviors are so culturally engrained that laws wouldn't make much of a difference.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#315

Post by daveoc64 »

thegrim33 wrote: post #130

The dichotomy is pretty interesting to me, given that most major cities in the country have been running high-publicity programs for the last decade to do everything possible to reduce car-related deaths, especially protecting pedestrians and bicyclists. (Cities like NYC and Seattle call it "vision zero", a vision of zero serious traffic injuries/deaths). They work to separate pedestrians and bicyclists from traffic,…

>The dichotomy is pretty interesting to me, given that most major cities in the country have been running high-publicity programs for the last decade to do everything possible to reduce car-related deaths, especially protecting pedestrians and bicyclists. (Cities like NYC and Seattle call it "vision zero", a vision of zero serious traffic injuries/deaths). They work to separate pedestrians and bicyclists from traffic, slow cars down with "traffic calming measures", lower speed limits, and so on.

Those sorts of measures have been shown to have negative impact on people's behaviour.

If drivers think vulnerable road users like cyclists and pedestrians are segregated away, they'll drive at higher speeds.

Pedestrians may start to assume that it's always safe for them to walk in certain places without looking.

On the other hand, if you have a system in place where people know that traffic does mix, there will be a lot more caution from all road users.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#316

Post by sheepscreek »

Symbiote wrote: post #296
dathinab wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>New Yorkers don't have a concept of "jaywalking"; it's just "walking." It's also not a word in the German language at all, it's just "crossing the road". If you do it safely grate, if you don't not grate and if there are children nearby unsafe road crossing is really something you shouldn't do, especially it it's just because you are to lazy to walk a small bit more (I think crossing a road close by a pedestrian cro…

We know the meaning of the American word in Britain, but it's also not a concept here. Germany seems very strict compared to the UK. You can be fined €10 in Germany for crossing when the red man is lit!

While travelling in Germany, I got to know the man in the pedestrian lights has a name: Ampelman (Ampelmännchen). The fact that they gave it a name - no wonder it’s a touchy topic for them.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#317

Post by sheepscreek »

pridkett wrote: post #305
Raidion wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laws that allow cyclists to treat stop signs and red lights as yield signs are called "Idaho stop" laws and are debated fiercely.

Unfortunately, New York seems to be odd in this respect. Even at lightly used stop lights, such as the lights inside of Central Park when most vehicles can’t use the roads, the police have been known to ticket cyclists. Then again, I’ve also seen the police ticket cyclists for speeding in the park. Numerous Reddit threads for both topics.

I guess jaywalking laws have been used as bandaid for what is the real problem - a complete disregard for pedestrians and cyclists on the road in big North American cities. But instead of putting more onus on the motorists, they’ve offloaded it to the former. I guess you could say the bias extends to the lawmakers. Almost feels like victim shaming, if you ask me.

But the fact is, jaywalking is against the law and when people don’t follow the rules, it just adds to the confusion which can cause more accidents. Just makes one wonder - what’s the point of it?

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#318

Post by waswaswas »

In Hong Kong and Mainland China, the sidewalks are railed off everywhere except the crosswalk, presumably to prevent the anarchy that occurs when pedestrians are allowed to freely cross the road anywhere.

A little jaywalking is good, a lot of jaywalking renders the road unusable to cars. You don't have to be pro-car or anti-transit to recognize the inefficiency in having roads that are uselessly congested with erratic foot traffic.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#319

Post by Suppafly »

dathinab wrote: post #301
Symbiote wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We know the meaning of the American word in Britain, but it's also not a concept here. Germany seems very strict compared to the UK. You can be fined €10 in Germany for crossing when the red man is lit!

Yes but jaywlaking is more then just crossing when the light is red (which indeed is highly frowned on in parts of Germany, and very normal in other parts of Germany). Jaywalking also refers to e.g. crossing the road without having a pedestrian crossing which is very normal in Germany.

> Jaywalking also refers to e.g. crossing the road without having a pedestrian crossing which is very normal in Germany.

It's actually more like crossing in the middle instead of the corner, corners are automatically allowed even without special markings, which from other comments seems like it's either illegal or frowned upon in germany too, right?

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#320

Post by garaetjjte »

victorbjorklund wrote: post #91
IshKebab wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which countries obey crossing lights as strictly as you describe? I've been to lots of European countries and none were like that. Not in the way that the US is.

Poland is pretty strict. They will fine you if you cross the street where there isnt a crosswalk. And generally people wait for green light in Poland even if there are zero cars on the road.

More precisely, it is illegal to cross when there is crosswalk within 100 meters.
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