Earlier quoted context omitted.
The precautionary principle plus what we know about heating plastic makes your reticence seem churlish. There are easy, safe alternatives in wood, metal and silicone. There’s no need to risk it.
Wood is not dishwasher safe, metal will damage the cookware's non-stick coating, which may be worse than the plastic I'm trying to avoid. I guess that leaves silicone.
Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid
321–330 of 886 posts
Re: Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid
#322Similar to its use in car tires, carbon black can impart strengthening and durability properties to the final product that other pigments do not exactly match.
Now if the final product is always going to be black anyway, then you wouldn't really need to start with clean virgin plastic, you could actually use some pretty ugly stuff and cover up unsightliness or inconsistency better in black.
Well the carbon black is made from a "special" oil scientifically known as CBO. I know the chemical jargon can be confusing most of the time so just take my word for it that the "full chemical name" is Carbon Black Oil. Unintuitive nomenclature, but aren't they all ;)
CBO is from some real dregs of petroleum refining, it is raw material that is going to be coked further and it does not need to pass the kind of testing that is required for black fuel oils. Shady operators have targeted these heavy black oil stocks as diluents for their non-refinery chemical byproducts that would otherwise end up as "chemical waste" in some cases.
In the heavy oil lab where people are checking things like viscosity or flash point, you need good ventilation all the time everywhere and never turn off the hoods. It has to be below acceptable levels without a respirator when an H2S-bearing crude is being handled. You still smell it because H2S is just that rough, but at least it doesn't linger and it's not enough to give you a headache. Tolerable now, not like it was decades ago before they started certifying fume hoods.
CBO doesn't have any H2S but it is never tolerable. It bears quite a variety of disagreeable notes that do not resemble any characteristic form of crude or refined petroleum, and it is often described as "weird smelling" by experienced oil chemists. The variety is amazing and hard not to notice, some batches are just so different and others so repulsive. This is when the most sensitive people reach for their respirators, even though they are just fine handling pure benzene without, because the ventilation really is that good.
Bon appetit !
Re: Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid
#323Earlier quoted context omitted.
The precautionary principle plus what we know about heating plastic makes your reticence seem churlish. There are easy, safe alternatives in wood, metal and silicone. There’s no need to risk it.
In my country we have some ridiculous newspapers that will publish any story with "may cause cancer" in the headline. So for a lot of people these stories are a boy-who-cried-wolf situation. Precautionary principle? I'm sorry to say stainless steel may leech heavy metals into food during cooking [1] And also silicone may leech potentially harmful chemicals into food [2] Nonstick coatings? Teflon flu "could be a real…
Re: Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid
#324This article is brief and uses big numbers to make a scary point but I'd be interested in if there is proof of causation of significant physiological effects at the exposure level from domestic cooking. Often media will say "people exposed to Y have increased Z" but fail to mention that in studies those people worked in industrial settings with Y and the exposure level is hundreds or thousands of times higher than in…
The precautionary principle plus what we know about heating plastic makes your reticence seem churlish. There are easy, safe alternatives in wood, metal and silicone. There’s no need to risk it.
Re: Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid
#325Earlier quoted context omitted.
The precautionary principle plus what we know about heating plastic makes your reticence seem churlish. There are easy, safe alternatives in wood, metal and silicone. There’s no need to risk it.
Wood is not dishwasher safe, metal will damage the cookware's non-stick coating, which may be worse than the plastic I'm trying to avoid. I guess that leaves silicone.
Re: Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid
#326Earlier quoted context omitted.
FYI most coffee cups which appear to be paper are also plastic lined. The real solution is sunsetting single-use anything for any other applications outside bio labs or medical procedures. But $$$
> The real solution is sunsetting single-use anything...but $$$ Those $$$ correspond to real-world costs. For examplee, we also want to lower car usage. Do you imagine that people who commute by bicycle or train are going to carry around durable versions of every single-use item they currently encounter? Cups, straws, plates, utensils, napkins, takeout containers, grocery bags, produce bags, tissues? Carrying around…
Some of the reason being that they are planning their trips and know what they can carry, and know that they don't want to carry more. Reusable water bottles in a work backpack are an example.
The other aspect is you don't have to carry all of these things. If you eat in a restaurant or at a house you are more likely to have reusable options available (ie washable plates and dinnerware). In many ways, car culture is linked to takeaway culture, which causes single use culture.
Top of mind; it's easy to picture the American automobile with bags of fast food trash.
Re: Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid
#327Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ugh you reminded me how much I hate flame retardants and the horrible laws we have in America that have us spray it everywhere. I was just recently looking at bicycle seats for small kids and the one I found interesting happened to recently have a recall (Thule) as they grossly over applied the flame retardant to a point where it was immediately toxic. I am guessing it was in the foam pieces but such a depressing ide…
Why exactly do bicycle seats and toddler necklace toys need to be flame retardant again?
In general though, through the 50s-70s there were some tragic events where people died in fires. Part of this is federal legislation, part of this is California who required household furnishings to withstand an open flame. Most of the legislation still stands, some of it like CA's has been reduced to a smolder test but it still requires some retardants.
People don't pay attention to this one but its in everything, mattresses, couches, baby sleep wear. And for me, a bigger issue than PFAS.
Re: Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid
#328Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or a gift link: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2024/10/black-pla... (@dang, please consider using it as the main link.)
Not working for me. It loads, but still with paywall.
Re: Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid
#329Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The real solution is sunsetting single-use anything...but $$$ Those $$$ correspond to real-world costs. For examplee, we also want to lower car usage. Do you imagine that people who commute by bicycle or train are going to carry around durable versions of every single-use item they currently encounter? Cups, straws, plates, utensils, napkins, takeout containers, grocery bags, produce bags, tissues? Carrying around…
Straws are useless. Plates and ustensiles can be provided by and cleaned at the place you eat. Takeout containers don’t take more space than the non reusable container you will have to carry back anyway. They can also be provided by your place of work if you generally go for take out for lunch. Reusable tissue bags take no space or paper bags can be used for a cost. Napkins and tissues are not made of plastics. So, y…
Would you be surprised to learn that napkins and tissues and paper towels have all sorts of plastic coatings on them? It’s an untold story and I’d love one of these pubs to do some research the way they did about pizza boxes back in the day
Re: Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid
#330Another thing to think about is the pigment used is often "carbon black" instead or in addition to some of the other colorful powders that are opaque enough to provide a full pallette, when starting from virgin white or clear polymer pellets. Similar to its use in car tires, carbon black can impart strengthening and durability properties to the final product that other pigments do not exactly match. Now if the final…
It would appear that it's the PAH content of petroleum derived carbon black that is the carcinogenic component