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Stanford's Most Popular Major Is Now Computer Science

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Re: Stanford's Most Popular Major Is Now Computer Science

#51

Post by mkramlich »

Wilya wrote: post #48
rodly wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people who are entering college with the mindset that a degree is simply an accolade to garner large sums of money are misunderstanding the principal of college and higher-education learning. You go to college because you're interested in something enough to pursue a greater understanding of it. The degree is simply a token that you're not full of shit. So whether you're complaining about student debt or vali…

That's one of the things to do in college. Gaining a shiny degree that will help you get a better job is another. Meeting people who will help you in your career is yet another. There are many reasons to go to college. Learning interesting stuff is just one of them.

> Meeting people who will help you in your career is yet another.

I predict the Internet will increasingly replace this traditional function of the college experience. And do it for, essentially, just the cost of Internet access service each month. Yes we'll have to use a web browser and click on the right links to the right sites, chat in topic-oriented forums, and then go do "meetups" in meatspace (Dr. Evil saying "lasers") to meet them face-to-face, become friends, learn from each other, collaborate together, micro-projects, trial projects, earn F2F credibility, put things up on our online portfolios, become ambiant, self-promote, self-educate, iterate, rinse, repeat. Goodbye 4-6 years of grinding and $100K in student debt.

I agree that traditionally going to college was a great way to meet people who've been filtered for certain qualities. But this tradition comes from an era when the Internet didn't exist. Computers didn't exist. Even radios and telephony didn't exist for the earliest periods in which universities existed and operated. But we have all that stuff now. We have frickin FaceTime and Skype and Google Hangouts and Reddit and email mailing lists, oh my! Let's all get to meeting each other, and filtering for the qualities we want, while bypassing that big honkin expensive middleman industry. I'm also seeing this trend with hackerspaces and makerspaces. Meetup.com is a big enabler.

Re: Stanford's Most Popular Major Is Now Computer Science

#52

Post by AngryParsley »

zura wrote: post #49
aphexairlines wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with people choosing CS for the money? The more people become literate in our field, the better off we are as a society, probably.

I guess it depends on the person, but I think, many of such people will become bored and unhappy after some time.

I curse the day I chose computer science! If only I was a liberal arts major, my life would be carefree and happy! Woe is me, being able to quit a job on a whim and get a six-figure salary elsewhere a whole week later!

You'd be surprised how adaptable people can be. It wasn't long ago that most of us spent our days finding and growing food. Compared to the skill change in the agriculture to industry transition, learning about computation isn't a big deal.

Re: Stanford's Most Popular Major Is Now Computer Science

#53

Post by jianxioy »

taskstrike wrote: post #46
newsoundwave wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that's true, I feel like there's going to be plenty of awful programmers in the group that's just in it for the money (although that's not to say there won't be passionate programmers who are also awful - they're just more likely to want to improve themselves). With much of CS and programming being so collaborative, those that just don't have the talent or the heart for it generally cause more hassle and grief…

CS weeds out the bad programmers so they never graduate. If you can pass Stanford's CS program you are probably pretty smart.

This is totally untrue.

Re: Stanford's Most Popular Major Is Now Computer Science

#54

Post by mukaiji »

robyates wrote: post #45

“A quarter of all undergraduates and more than 50% of graduate students [at Stanford] are engineering majors." I can attest Stanford really feels like a tech school in disguise, especially at the graduate level.

Actually, I was surprised that the number is that low... but maybe it's because i'm around techies all day and tend to consider the fuzzies as cute, inconsequential thingy that hang around our campus like butterflies do around a pond :)

Re: Stanford's Most Popular Major Is Now Computer Science

#55

Post by suresk »

newsoundwave wrote: post #42
aphexairlines wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with people choosing CS for the money? The more people become literate in our field, the better off we are as a society, probably.

While that's true, I feel like there's going to be plenty of awful programmers in the group that's just in it for the money (although that's not to say there won't be passionate programmers who are also awful - they're just more likely to want to improve themselves). With much of CS and programming being so collaborative, those that just don't have the talent or the heart for it generally cause more hassle and grief…

Getting a CS degree isn't easy - most of the people who lack the interest or intellect for it wash out before too long. I started going back for a CS degree about a year ago, and quickly found this out when I saw people retaking a 2000 level class and still failing to grasp the mechanics of function calls or basic data types.

Sure, there are some people who finish through sheer bullheadedness and others who stop caring after they graduate, but I still think that if you manage to make it through a 4 year CS program (especially if it is at a place like Stanford), there is a pretty good chance you have potential to become a useful programmer.

I'd argue that one reason we end up with CS graduates who don't end up becoming very useful is that our industry in general isn't that great at mentoring, and there are a lot of things you need to know to be a decent programmer that aren't always taught (or taught very well) in college. Good mentors in the first few years that someone is developing professionally can make a huge impact, and we should figure out a way for this to happen more often.

Re: Stanford's Most Popular Major Is Now Computer Science

#56

Post by suresk »

mkramlich wrote: post #51
Wilya wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one of the things to do in college. Gaining a shiny degree that will help you get a better job is another. Meeting people who will help you in your career is yet another. There are many reasons to go to college. Learning interesting stuff is just one of them.

> Meeting people who will help you in your career is yet another. I predict the Internet will increasingly replace this traditional function of the college experience. And do it for, essentially, just the cost of Internet access service each month. Yes we'll have to use a web browser and click on the right links to the right sites, chat in topic-oriented forums, and then go do "meetups" in meatspace (Dr. Evil saying…

The quantity and quality of programming courses available online right now - completely free of charge - is astounding to me. I taught myself to program in high school in the mid-to-late 90's, and while there was a ton of information available online even then, I still kind of wish stuff like Udacity, Coursera, Khan Academy, iTunes University and MIT OCW were available back then.

Still, I think the social aspects of college are hard to fully replicate online. For many people, interactions on places like Reddit, mailing lists, etc are somewhat too anonymous and random, while things like Skype and FaceTime are more for people who are already familiar with each other.

I do think the Internet has huge potential to fundamentally change the way we obtain education. It certainly has fundamentally changed the way we obtain information, but it hasn't changed the way we get marketplace-accepted education yet. I think that is coming.

Re: Stanford's Most Popular Major Is Now Computer Science

#57

Post by rohit89 »

AngryParsley wrote: post #52
zura wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it depends on the person, but I think, many of such people will become bored and unhappy after some time.

I curse the day I chose computer science! If only I was a liberal arts major, my life would be carefree and happy! Woe is me, being able to quit a job on a whim and get a six-figure salary elsewhere a whole week later! You'd be surprised how adaptable people can be. It wasn't long ago that most of us spent our days finding and growing food. Compared to the skill change in the agriculture to industry transition, learn…

Not all people like sitting in front of a computer for many hours a day. If you don't like it, its unlikely you'll be good at the job in which case getting a new job is not guaranteed.

Re: Stanford's Most Popular Major Is Now Computer Science

#58

Post by zura »

AngryParsley wrote: post #52
zura wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it depends on the person, but I think, many of such people will become bored and unhappy after some time.

I curse the day I chose computer science! If only I was a liberal arts major, my life would be carefree and happy! Woe is me, being able to quit a job on a whim and get a six-figure salary elsewhere a whole week later! You'd be surprised how adaptable people can be. It wasn't long ago that most of us spent our days finding and growing food. Compared to the skill change in the agriculture to industry transition, learn…

As I said, it depends on the person. Personally, I can't imagine myself happy as a lawyer or financial consultant for instance, no matter how much money I'd make.

Re: Stanford's Most Popular Major Is Now Computer Science

#59

Post by raygunomical »

jianxioy wrote: post #53
taskstrike wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CS weeds out the bad programmers so they never graduate. If you can pass Stanford's CS program you are probably pretty smart.

This is totally untrue.

Why's that? Do you have any information to back this up? I'd be interested in that.

Re: Stanford's Most Popular Major Is Now Computer Science

#60

Post by chipsy »

mkramlich wrote: post #51
Wilya wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one of the things to do in college. Gaining a shiny degree that will help you get a better job is another. Meeting people who will help you in your career is yet another. There are many reasons to go to college. Learning interesting stuff is just one of them.

> Meeting people who will help you in your career is yet another. I predict the Internet will increasingly replace this traditional function of the college experience. And do it for, essentially, just the cost of Internet access service each month. Yes we'll have to use a web browser and click on the right links to the right sites, chat in topic-oriented forums, and then go do "meetups" in meatspace (Dr. Evil saying…

Agreement. My "college friends" have all but disconnected, even though we are still nominally linked via Facebook(which arrived on campus around our second year). We've all ended up going in mostly unrelated directions. In the meantime, the internet has done unimaginable things for both my career and social life.

For help and research, there are online references, online discussions, online correspondence...even if it's all "informal" and done in an IRC channel or something, it's all out there and you can, potentially, spend 24 hours a day immersed in a subject.

And in making more connections, there's an odd feedback loop between the local gatherings and the online stuff. It can start at either end, but the two complement each other well by presenting different situations.

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