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Steve Ballmer was an underrated CEO

danluu.com

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Re: Steve Ballmer was an underrated CEO

#201

Post by AdieuToLogic »

addicted wrote: post #183
AdieuToLogic wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> We'd even have it ready for him before he showed up so he never had to wait! > Man, your entitlement just makes me want to never tip. Urban legend has it that the word "tips" is an acronym for "to insure prompt service." Whether or not this is true, the OP's optimization for "prompt service", as defined above, makes an assessment of same qualifying as entitlement puzzling. > Just because someone has the ability to…

In the US tipping isn’t just a cultural expectation. There are fundamental legal differences between tipped and non-tipped employees. For example, federal minimum wages for tipped employees are close to $2 vs the $7 for non tipped employees.

Agreed. I have family members who have had multi-decade careers as waiters in high-end dining establishments.

The way I framed the above was to directly address:

> Man, your entitlement just makes me want to never tip.

Re: Steve Ballmer was an underrated CEO

#202

Post by geodel »

AdieuToLogic wrote: post #151
carabiner wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Servers make minimum wage in WA, but you weren't a server. I also don't tip if I order at a register.

> Servers make minimum wage in WA, but you weren't a server. I also don't tip if I order at a register. And I assume you do not expect any non-required service from those transactions. Which is understandable, yet different from: >> We'd even have it ready for him before he showed up so he never had to wait! If this additional service were provided during your patronage, would that warrant a tip even though interacti…

That's why I think these premium additional services must not be offered gratis.

Re: Steve Ballmer was an underrated CEO

#203

Post by itake »

skyyler wrote: post #172
unixhero wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tipping for a convenience item at the till really really sucks. Am I the only one sane on this? Best regards Norway

It does suck. But in this culture that Steve exists within, those positions are paid mostly by tips. He certainly could afford to help out the people that prepared his iced tea ritual for him in a timely manner, but he did not.

> But in this culture that Steve exists within, those positions are paid mostly by tips.

False. Presumably this was in WA, employers have to pay full wages. there is no carve out "tipped" wage (most) of the rest of the USA has. Currently, min wage in Redmond (King County) is $20.29/hr.

Many businesses in King County do not allow tipping.

Re: Steve Ballmer was an underrated CEO

#204

Post by greggyb »

wongarsu wrote: post #175
dexterdog wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Azure may be successful financially, but as someone who has finally used it for the last two years after 15 years of AWS and a little bit of GCP, I can't help but think the world would be a better place if it didn't exist or if some lesser player had that market share.

For most stuff Azure is pretty meh, but it seems to have the best features for running Windows servers and integrates well with Active Directory (or MS Entra or whatever they currently call it). Features that I don't need as a startup founder, but that would be very interesting for many places I worked at. Basically the cloud for everyone but the tech companies

> Basically the cloud for everyone but the tech companies

And most companies are not tech companies. This is something that tends to be lost in HN discussions (not saying that applies to you, specifically).

I've spent a lot of time in the Microsoft world. I worked for AWS as well. In general, Microsoft executes on platform and ecosystem in a way that works very well for a lot of customers. In general, AWS executes on products better, which tends to appeal more to those who are focused on technology, specifically.

Re: Steve Ballmer was an underrated CEO

#205

Post by csomar »

unixhero wrote: post #162
not_a_bot_4sho wrote: post #124

Funny story. I used to see Steve almost every weekday for a couple of years. I can't speak to his business skills, but I can attest that he never once offered a tip for his daily black iced tea. We'd even have it ready for him before he showed up so he never had to wait! He would pay with cash, and I'd hand him his change and drink, and that was that. It's funny to me now: one of the richest men in the world and he n…

Tipping for a convenience item at the till really really sucks. Am I the only one sane on this? Best regards Norway

No you are not. The tipping culture in the US is insane (along with the idea that employers want their stuff to be paid via tips). Good for Ballmer for sticking to his values.

Re: Steve Ballmer was an underrated CEO

#206

Post by kstrauser »

causality0 wrote: post #119
codeflo wrote: post #74

I'm not informed enough to rebut this, and don't want to be quoted in the follow-up article that suggests HN is still too dumb to get the genius of Ballmer, but here's my take. It's only the footnote of the article that mentions Ballmer's "stage persona". I think that's the important point, and I would add that his "interview persona" might have been even worse. Back then, he was quoted as saying insanely dumb shit a…

Brief data transmissions being called "squirts" is common, and was more common at the time.

I've been involved with computer networking since approximately 1982, and I've never once heard someone use "squirts" outside talking about Zunes. I don't doubt that it was jargon inside very specific niches, but it has never been common elsewhere.

Re: Steve Ballmer was an underrated CEO

#207

Post by Uvix »

dexterdog wrote: post #148
dyauspitr wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Azure happened because of Nadella (who led the project) despite Ballmer.

Azure may be successful financially, but as someone who has finally used it for the last two years after 15 years of AWS and a little bit of GCP, I can't help but think the world would be a better place if it didn't exist or if some lesser player had that market share.

Maybe it's just "what you're used to", but I'd swap Azure and AWS in that statement. Going from Azure to AWS, I found it not nearly as nice to use or easy to understand. Even basic features like "see all the resources in my account" were missing from AWS.

Re: Steve Ballmer was an underrated CEO

#208

Post by hilux »

adabyron wrote: post #158

What Dan doesn't mention is that Steve was given the reins to a sinking ship if I recall. The US Govt was just finishing it's trial on Microsoft & was watching them closely. Tech bubble just burst. On day 1 of the transition after Steve, the stock jumped like crazy & continued that momentum. The stock was, as Dan mentions, at an unfairly low p/e ratio too. Idk if Steve was great but seems he was given the role of tra…

> On day 1 of the transition after Steve, the stock jumped like crazy & continued that momentum.

Many people would interpret that as "investors had no faith in Steve Ballmer and were delighted to see his back." Do you have a different interpretation?

Also, you seem to be implying that the trial was some external event, and not directly the fault of Bill and Steve. That is not how most people felt at the time.

Re: Steve Ballmer was an underrated CEO

#209

Post by not_a_bot_4sho »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #160
stouset wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Bro there's no "wait staff" involved in this transaction. He purchased an item, the person handed it to him. This is well outside the bounds of what should be tipped.

Agree to disagree.

We learned his schedule, we made sure to make his drink so it would be ready on time while also handling the hundreds of other orders in the morning rush. This is something we tried to do for every regular customer with a fixed order.

I'd argue that this sort of thing is well within the bounds of what was 'tippable' service back then.

But to be clear, tips weren't expected then like they are now. It was an infrequent thing. If you dropped your ~15¢ change into the jar once or twice a month, you were a generous tipper.

We served Steve for many years and he was definitely an outlier. He wasn't the only other customer that never tipped. But he was the only one that was famously rich, which is what made it so amusing to us.

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