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Buy payphones and retire

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151–160 of 365 posts

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#151

The concept of "passive income" is almost a scissor concept. Or maybe only if you couple it with the categorical imperitive. On the one hand, it's so obviously true that it would be great to have passive income. Draw the salary you're drawing now, with some growth, and not have to work. On the other hand, if everyone had access to this capability then society and civilization would grind to a halt. People make things…

> If the goal is to have a system where everyone can have passive income, then achieving that goal is the end of the world.

Not if we build robots to make things.

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#152
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The categorical imperative roughly says that something is moral only if its universal adoption would benefit society. Really? I actually don’t think that’s right at all. For example: nobody should be a philosopher, because if I everyone were, society would collapse. Surely, Kant did not believe that. My understanding is that the categorical imperative is more like: it’s only moral if you would accept a random roll…

Your definition is much closer to Rawls’s vision of a just society and the “veil of ignorance.” While heavily influenced by Kant, Rawls comes much later. Kant’s Categorical Imperative was an attempt to define moral laws (without resorting to a deity). The article has it right, though I might change the wording slightly to say that a “rule” or “law” that I use to guide my behavior is only moral if its universal adopti…

A rule can also be: "people who enjoy philosophy and are good at philosophy should become philosophers"

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#153

The concept of "passive income" is almost a scissor concept. Or maybe only if you couple it with the categorical imperitive. On the one hand, it's so obviously true that it would be great to have passive income. Draw the salary you're drawing now, with some growth, and not have to work. On the other hand, if everyone had access to this capability then society and civilization would grind to a halt. People make things…

> On the other hand, if everyone had access to this capability then society and civilization would grind to a halt.

On the contrary, everyone does use this capability. It is what makes the concept of "retirement" possible.

You borrow money when you are young and do not have much of value to contribute to society (for education, for purchasing a home, maybe for starting other ventures), you earn money during your productive years to pay those loans back and accumulate wealth (in personal or government retirement accounts, in Social Security or other government plans, in a pension), and at some point you are able to invest or lend or that money to others (or have others do so for you in the case of things like pension funds) and live off of the return, hopefully before you become so infirm you are no longer able to work.

I hope we can agree that allowing people to retire before they die is a net benefit to society. Claiming anyone can do that while they are still young with no risk is where you should start to get suspicious. Why should it be easy to get rich?

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#154
post #67
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buffett lies. He had much better investments. I likes to tell us all stories. The big-finance reality is much more inside-tradingish than he wants us all to believe.

What investments do you think were better? He's had far more income from other investments. But he turned $25 into $2000 in 3 years. That's around 331% profit per year, compounding annually. Given that he likes to invest in relatively mature companies, I can easily believe that no other investment ever showed a greater annualized return. (Of course this calculation discounts his personal investment of time to run the…

I turned $0 into $100k this year. Infinite return if you exclude personal effort.

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#155
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> more people will lose than win. It's not necessarily zero sum. If money is invested to produce value instead of simply moving it around then everyone can benefit.

Yes, though it's important to note that the economic notion of value is weighted according to wealth and therefore more than a bit weird. Feeding an orphan creates no "value" because they have no money to pay you with, while merging companies into a mega-monopoly that can shake down the rest of the economy creates loads of "value" because it pays rich investors huge dividends. Of course, there are plenty of honest wa…

> Feeding an orphan creates no "value" because they have no money to pay you with

Only because it’s illegal to make them work? I imagine it could be quite lucrative.

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#158

The concept of "passive income" is almost a scissor concept. Or maybe only if you couple it with the categorical imperitive. On the one hand, it's so obviously true that it would be great to have passive income. Draw the salary you're drawing now, with some growth, and not have to work. On the other hand, if everyone had access to this capability then society and civilization would grind to a halt. People make things…

"passive income", in it's original iteration, wasn't the idea that you could make money by doing nothing. The idea was that you made something or did something that you were uniquely able to make or do, and then the result of your labour would make money for you while you put in minimal continued effort. the version of passive income where you don't do anything productive at all, ever, and just put up some initial ca…

The original iteration of passive income was feudalism. It itself was a set of interconnecting passive income schemes[0], ultimately derived from your ability to own the most economically valuable land. This scheme hinges upon your ability to enclose and exclude access to that land by force - not prior labor paying off over time.

Of course, the only passive income schemes that work today are the "prior labor" type. But that's because of copyright and patent law, which exist specifically with the idea that you can make something valuable now and charge the public for it later. A creative work or an invention is itself land being excluded by force, but this is a magical abstract land of nearly infinite size[1]. It's enclosers are empowered not through direct force, but through the blessing of a legal priesthood.

Ok, I suppose if we're including force and feudalism, we probably should also include, say, organized crime. But in that case the labor isn't stored, it's slaved: you find suckers and scam them into doing crimes to your benefit, then get them to continue working for you, because if they ever leave you can just kill them, or sick the Feds on them.

Y'know, I'm starting to think passive income is actually just a funny way to say theft...

[0] The two schemes I'm thinking of are manorialism, and something akin to modern rent extraction or "chokepoint capitalism" in which you own a road or river and can charge money to people passing through your land. I forget the name of the latter, and there's probably additional relationships I'm not counting. I know the Holy Roman Empire was lousy with the latter kind.

[1] Since there's far more of this creativity land than there is land on Earth, it's far harder to find land that people want or have to pay for. That's why entertainment is such a ridiculously hit-driven business and why entertainment companies hate rights reversion so much.

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#160
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>just put up some initial capital in exchange for even more money back, is always a scam. some people might come out ahead sometimes, but more people will lose than win. How so? My all-world index funds are doing pretty well. For more risk averse, almost every buyer of USA governmental bonds gets "even more money back" in exchange for the initial capital. I don't think that's a scam either.

It's not a scam for you but rather a scam for society at large. Making money purely by owning some revenue generating asset, while not providing any service yourself is doesn't work if every single person does it. Many people who work at companies on the S&P500 aren't paid enough to having savings to invest. The money the company saves on employee salaries are shown as profits which result in the "passive income" tha…

Perhaps those who aren’t the investors benefit by being invested in, indirectly. They are benefitting from a government running on money from bonds, and possibly employed by a business fueled by some form of debt.
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