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New iMac with M4

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Re: New iMac with M4

#291

Post by lisper »

tcoff91 wrote: post #242
lisper wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An HDMI input would be great. There is a reason that is difficult to do: the licensing terms for HDMI require manufacturers to put DRM in place to make it impossible (or at least not straightforward) to record from an HDMI source. It's nearly impossible to meet that requirement on a computer.

DisplayPort doesn't have that same restriction, right?

I don't know, but probably not. It's a legal requirement for HDMI, not a technical one. It's actually not hard to build an HDMI recorder, you just can't legally sell one. But bootleg recorders are easy to find.

Re: New iMac with M4

#292

Post by whatever1 »

bhouston wrote: post #261

I guess it is just me, but I cannot stand working on small screens on the desktop. I will accept a small screen on a laptop because it is inconvenient carrying around something larger, but on a desktop, there is no reason to compromise. I use a 48" OLED with my MacBook Air M3 and for me that is a near ultimate web development experience both on desktop and when travelling: https://bsky.app/profile/benhouston3d.bsky.s…

The pixel density would kill me. Now if it was an 8k monitor…

Re: New iMac with M4

#293

Post by leptons »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #219
simonw wrote: post #144

As someone who mucks around with running LLMs and other large models on my computer the 32GB maximum RAM is a show-stopper for me. I'm on a M2 with 64GB at the moment and I'm already regretting not going for 96 or even 128. I want to be able to run a large model AND other apps at the same time.

I really wish that "elite" LLM folks like yourself or many others in the field would just abandon apple/mac. Yes, they make better laptops from a hardware perspective. No, M series chips are not actually competitive with Nvidia hardware on anything except cheap (and relatively slow) inference of big models. The fact that windows laptops are considered DOA despite the insane amount of inertia behind Nvidia GPUs is jus…

There are a lot of "power users" that refuse to realize that they simply will never be in Apple's target market. They love Apple so much for cosmetic reasons, for wanting to be in the "in-crowd" reasons, or for whatever the fanboy reason, that they can't see the writing on the wall. Apple is not making hardware for their use cases, and likely never will again.

Re: New iMac with M4

#294

Post by xutopia »

jfoster wrote: post #76

I could never justify getting an iMac. All the downsides of a laptop & desktop in one; not upgradeable and not portable. Leaves me wondering how many of these Apple actually sell. A Mac Mini with a separate screen feels like it makes far more sense.

I was considering an iMac but decided against it because I couldn't use it as a secondary display for my work laptop.

Re: New iMac with M4

#295

Post by bhouston »

crossroadsguy wrote: post #271
bhouston wrote: post #261

I guess it is just me, but I cannot stand working on small screens on the desktop. I will accept a small screen on a laptop because it is inconvenient carrying around something larger, but on a desktop, there is no reason to compromise. I use a 48" OLED with my MacBook Air M3 and for me that is a near ultimate web development experience both on desktop and when travelling: https://bsky.app/profile/benhouston3d.bsky.s…

I tried couple of monitor sizes and anything above 27-28 inches came across as downright inconvenient for work at least for me. Also, 4K was not great at all. 2K was. It was opposite of how I want my TV.

I love the screen real-estate resolution for coding, it really is a lower cognitive load.

I can have the terminal window open with lots of output, the ChatGPT window for AI, the source code with a ton of lines on the screen. And then on the other side have the browser window open with the console/debugger below. No need to swap in-and-out windows at all, just shift my gaze.

Re: New iMac with M4

#296

Post by pram »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #219
simonw wrote: post #144

As someone who mucks around with running LLMs and other large models on my computer the 32GB maximum RAM is a show-stopper for me. I'm on a M2 with 64GB at the moment and I'm already regretting not going for 96 or even 128. I want to be able to run a large model AND other apps at the same time.

I really wish that "elite" LLM folks like yourself or many others in the field would just abandon apple/mac. Yes, they make better laptops from a hardware perspective. No, M series chips are not actually competitive with Nvidia hardware on anything except cheap (and relatively slow) inference of big models. The fact that windows laptops are considered DOA despite the insane amount of inertia behind Nvidia GPUs is jus…

You pretty casually dismiss the value of being able to run big models, when it's literally impossible on a mobile Geforce in a lot of cases since they max out at 16GB!

Re: New iMac with M4

#297

Post by dialup_sounds »

sigh_again wrote: post #87
39896880 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Now 4 generations in, they are still comparing performance to M1. I get that 15-20% improvements aren't too exciting but it feels old. FTA: "Compared to the most popular 24-inch all-in-one PC with the latest Intel Core 7 processor, the new iMac is up to 4.5x faster.1"

First off, "up to" is the most bullshit metric. I am also up to 10x more productive when I get coffee, but that's when comparing to days where I just play Satisfactory all day long. Secondly, "compared to a random HP AIO PC with a 5 year old CPU" (since there are approximately zero chances that the most popular PC in a market that is heavily Apple dominated would be a 2023 Raptor Lake) is just, once again, Apple's pi…

Nah, it's a Core 7 150U, which is Raptor Lake.

The trick is they used a GPU accelerated benchmark (Affinity) that highlights how trash the Intel GPU is.

Re: New iMac with M4

#298

Post by sroussey »

simonw wrote: post #144

As someone who mucks around with running LLMs and other large models on my computer the 32GB maximum RAM is a show-stopper for me. I'm on a M2 with 64GB at the moment and I'm already regretting not going for 96 or even 128. I want to be able to run a large model AND other apps at the same time.

I have a M2 with 64GB and find that it’s fine.

Larger models that don’t fit are only moderately better, while much slower. I’d want higher memory bandwidth over more memory.

The next five years will push for better models that are smaller. Smaller is faster and more useful.

I feel like we are in the brute force phase of model development and that it will pass.

Running 405B param model in 16bit on my laptop would be neat, but I’d stop after the novelty wore off.

Re: New iMac with M4

#299

Post by bhouston »

whatever1 wrote: post #292
bhouston wrote: post #261

I guess it is just me, but I cannot stand working on small screens on the desktop. I will accept a small screen on a laptop because it is inconvenient carrying around something larger, but on a desktop, there is no reason to compromise. I use a 48" OLED with my MacBook Air M3 and for me that is a near ultimate web development experience both on desktop and when travelling: https://bsky.app/profile/benhouston3d.bsky.s…

The pixel density would kill me. Now if it was an 8k monitor…

And if MacBook's supported 8K monitors (they max out at 6K 60Hz, where as 4K does 144Hz.) That would be my next upgrade once they are affordable. But I think they won't be affordable until 8K TVs are common as that will drive the volume.

Re: New iMac with M4

#300

Post by phpnode »

dijit wrote: post #128
epolanski wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just reminded me of how stupid the plug beneath the MM was...You never needed to charge it, till you needed it and couldn't use the mouse.

There are so many legitimate reasons to hate the magic mouse. Ergonimics, the polling rate, the way the glass gets greasy, the scratchy hard plastic on the bottom. Truly, inferior to the Logitech MX Master in all ways except looks. (which is subjective). But it takes literally a few seconds to get a days worth of charge out of the mouse, Apple clearly don't want you to leave it plugged in to use as a wired mouse: why…

It’s all about tension on the lightning connector imo - the connector isn’t designed for that level of flexibility, so it would break and it’s not like they’re going to use a different connector just for the mouse
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