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Kim Dotcom: Joe Biden Ordered the Megaupload Shutdown

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Re: Kim Dotcom: Joe Biden Ordered the Megaupload Shutdown

#61

Post by tedunangst »

epoxyhockey wrote: post #33
cjensen wrote: post #27

The Democrats have long been best friends with the Entertainment Industry, but so what? The Vice-President simply has no power to order anything more complex than pizza. He can suggest, plead, and implore, but someone else has to actually take the responsibility for the action and order something to occur. This is a discussion, not a Court of Law, so let me state my view clearly: Kim Dotcom created an extensive enter…

The Vice-President simply has no power to order anything more complex than pizza. Having the tie-breaking vote in the Senate is a very tangible power of the VPOTUS, especially when it is needed. I do agree that MU may be able to prove that it didn't break any laws, due to their minimal DMCA compliance. And, it is for that reason that higher powers in the US may have had to resort to illegal tactics to shut the websit…

Ever since we decided that all senate votes are going to be 60-40, the vp's vote has become a lot less important.

Re: Kim Dotcom: Joe Biden Ordered the Megaupload Shutdown

#62

Post by tzs »

guelo wrote: post #30

The striking thing to me about the MU shutdown was the timing right after the defeat of SOPA. It was like the government wanted to teach "the people" a lesson for getting too uppity. Like "Oh, you think we can't shut down your websites just because we don't have this little law that you rose up against? Well watch this." With all the political uproar that was going on that week it would be surprising if the FBI had n…

An operation like the MU investigation and raid takes many months, if not years, to plan and execute, especially when it involves cooperation with officials in several countries.

It is almost impossible that the timing had anything to do with SOPA, considering that the SOPA defeat was rather unexpected.

Re: Kim Dotcom: Joe Biden Ordered the Megaupload Shutdown

#63

Post by powertower »

tzs wrote: post #62
guelo wrote: post #30

The striking thing to me about the MU shutdown was the timing right after the defeat of SOPA. It was like the government wanted to teach "the people" a lesson for getting too uppity. Like "Oh, you think we can't shut down your websites just because we don't have this little law that you rose up against? Well watch this." With all the political uproar that was going on that week it would be surprising if the FBI had n…

An operation like the MU investigation and raid takes many months, if not years, to plan and execute, especially when it involves cooperation with officials in several countries. It is almost impossible that the timing had anything to do with SOPA, considering that the SOPA defeat was rather unexpected.

You're using logic and an unbiased point-of-view.

Which is starkly different from the other side, which tends to revert to conspiracy theories every time.

Re: Kim Dotcom: Joe Biden Ordered the Megaupload Shutdown

#64

Post by billpatrianakos »

guelo wrote: post #30

The striking thing to me about the MU shutdown was the timing right after the defeat of SOPA. It was like the government wanted to teach "the people" a lesson for getting too uppity. Like "Oh, you think we can't shut down your websites just because we don't have this little law that you rose up against? Well watch this." With all the political uproar that was going on that week it would be surprising if the FBI had n…

That's very paranoid. Occam's razor, my friend. They were probably going to do this anyway with timing being a coincidence. People give the US government too much credit for planning devious things. Most of it is a lot of fuck-ups and political favors. Nothing more. I sincerely doubt the Feds did this as so to give the finger to protesters. They've been doing this long before SOPA was introduced and will continue too. SOPA just codifies the status quo so that the chances of anyone getting in trouble for shutting sites down becomes nil.

Re: Kim Dotcom: Joe Biden Ordered the Megaupload Shutdown

#65

Post by scott_s »

Karunamon wrote: post #28
cjensen wrote: post #27

The Democrats have long been best friends with the Entertainment Industry, but so what? The Vice-President simply has no power to order anything more complex than pizza. He can suggest, plead, and implore, but someone else has to actually take the responsibility for the action and order something to occur. This is a discussion, not a Court of Law, so let me state my view clearly: Kim Dotcom created an extensive enter…

> the speculations of a sleezy businessman like Dotcom regarding the integrity of the Vice President is unworthy of consideration. Textbook ad hominem. His business practices are completely irrelevant to the questions of impropriety raised and the illegal conduct of the authorities involved.

Logical fallacies are all that are going on here - all of the evidence that has been presented is highly circumstantial. Just because something is possible doesn't mean it happened.

Re: Kim Dotcom: Joe Biden Ordered the Megaupload Shutdown

#66

Post by eswangren »

reitzensteinm wrote: post #39
shin_lao wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not corruption if he didn't personally benefited from it. The problem is that if your only source of information is biased, you take the wrong decisions.

I'd say reelection to the second most powerful office in the country is a pretty compelling personal benefit. The fine line usually placed in the US between corruption and politics as normal is that of the quid pro quo; it's fine to take money from people who happen to share your beliefs, but if you change your votes because of that money, it's corruption. Politicans have always hidden behind the plausible deniabilit…

"the second most powerful office in the country". We are talking about the vice presidency here, correct?

Re: Kim Dotcom: Joe Biden Ordered the Megaupload Shutdown

#67

Post by scott_s »

incongruity wrote: post #6

On first glance at the headline, I really thought Kim Dotcom had gone off the deep end, but the evidence really does make it sound plausible. Sigh. We definitely have the best politicians money can buy...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McCarthy#Wheeling_speech

Re: Kim Dotcom: Joe Biden Ordered the Megaupload Shutdown

#68

Post by ekianjo »

tzs wrote: post #62
guelo wrote: post #30

The striking thing to me about the MU shutdown was the timing right after the defeat of SOPA. It was like the government wanted to teach "the people" a lesson for getting too uppity. Like "Oh, you think we can't shut down your websites just because we don't have this little law that you rose up against? Well watch this." With all the political uproar that was going on that week it would be surprising if the FBI had n…

An operation like the MU investigation and raid takes many months, if not years, to plan and execute, especially when it involves cooperation with officials in several countries. It is almost impossible that the timing had anything to do with SOPA, considering that the SOPA defeat was rather unexpected.

It did not seem like they were prepared very well, since they couldn't even get the paperwork right for the arrest. That does not look like something well planned at all.

Re: Kim Dotcom: Joe Biden Ordered the Megaupload Shutdown

#69

Post by reitzensteinm »

eswangren wrote: post #66
reitzensteinm wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say reelection to the second most powerful office in the country is a pretty compelling personal benefit. The fine line usually placed in the US between corruption and politics as normal is that of the quid pro quo; it's fine to take money from people who happen to share your beliefs, but if you change your votes because of that money, it's corruption. Politicans have always hidden behind the plausible deniabilit…

"the second most powerful office in the country". We are talking about the vice presidency here, correct?

I admit, that was a poor choice of words. How about second most visible, or second most prestigious?

My point was that it's an enviable position, not least of which because it's a great stepping stone to becoming president. Actual political power aside.

Re: Kim Dotcom: Joe Biden Ordered the Megaupload Shutdown

#70

Post by hobb0001 »

guelo wrote: post #30

The striking thing to me about the MU shutdown was the timing right after the defeat of SOPA. It was like the government wanted to teach "the people" a lesson for getting too uppity. Like "Oh, you think we can't shut down your websites just because we don't have this little law that you rose up against? Well watch this." With all the political uproar that was going on that week it would be surprising if the FBI had n…

It's more likely that the shutdown was planned to coincide with the SOPA bill. Even though SOPA was unexpectedly derailed, the raid had too much momentum and continued on regardless.
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