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Louis C.K. sees ticket scalping drop over 96% by selling tickets himself

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Re: Louis C.K. sees ticket scalping drop over 96% by selling tickets himself

#131

Post by ionforce »

nooneelse wrote: post #92
masklinn wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The scalpers are the market-makers. So what? They're not adding any value in the equation, they're just parasitically extracting wealth from all other entities. What's the point of that from a social perspective?

Indeed. And what is the incentive for an artist to allow his/her fans to have their wealth extracted by a third party? None. It only makes the fans less able to buy things from the artist in the future. Louis C.K. is cultivating/nurturing his fans like a gardener cultivates/nurtures a plant. That clearly includes not letting insects eat the leaves off of a plant one intends to get an ongoing crop from.

The incentive is to allow a specific sect of well-to-do fans access to his show that they didn't get otherwise.

Whether or not you agree with that incentive is entirely separate.

Re: Louis C.K. sees ticket scalping drop over 96% by selling tickets himself

#132

Post by gergles »

masklinn wrote: post #70
mhartl wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scalpers are the market-makers. If there were an official market, the scalpers would be out of business overnight.

> The scalpers are the market-makers. So what? They're not adding any value in the equation, they're just parasitically extracting wealth from all other entities. What's the point of that from a social perspective?

You're not going to be able to sell this on HN. The HFT apologists will come invade this thread and go on for paragraphs on end about how market makers provide a valuable service that would otherwise not be provided.

Without scalpers (HFT) apparently absolutely no commerce in the relevant market would ever occur.

Re: Louis C.K. sees ticket scalping drop over 96% by selling tickets himself

#133

Post by jarek »

rquantz wrote: post #124
jarek wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scalping benefits people who wouldn't have gotten tickets in a non-scalped sale (e.g. because there were twice the amount of people interested at face price than tickets available) and are willing to pay more to get the tickets. Scalpers are exploiting the rigid pricing and release schedules of the tickets. I don't support scalping but wish the artists and promoters would step up the fight themselves too.

I don't support scalping but wish the artists and promoters would step up the fight themselves too. That's exactly what Louis CK is doing.

Yup, and great for him! I wish more would do the same.

Re: Louis C.K. sees ticket scalping drop over 96% by selling tickets himself

#134

Post by timbre »

mhartl wrote: post #58
diek wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're operating on the flawed assumption that the sole endeavor here is to extract as much money from consumers as possible. If $45 a ticket allows Louis C.K. to make a tidy profit while still being affordable for his fans, but a third party buys all the tickets and resells them for $55... sure, some of his fans may shrug and say, "Well, I guess $55 isn't too bad" (price elasticity, etc, etc)... but why would Louis…

You're operating on the flawed assumption that the sole endeavor hear is to extract as much money from consumers as possible. No, that's why you have an initial lottery. With a lottery, poorer fans still have a chance to get a ticket.

A lottery doesn't seem to me to do anything but mitigate the benefit of fancy redialers or other automated ways of getting your ticket order in first. With or without a lottery, allowing resale for profit gives people willing to pay more a better shot at seeing the performance. Preventing it means everyone who's willing to pay the set price has an equal shot. I've always assumed that's the goal of anti-scalping schemes.

Re: Louis C.K. sees ticket scalping drop over 96% by selling tickets himself

#135

Post by dkokelley »

joezydeco wrote: post #100
dkokelley wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The artificial demand you mention is essentially speculation. The scalpers are betting that the actual price attendees are willing to pay is higher than the initial selling price, which leads them to buy the ticket. This system still requires players who ultimately purchase the tickets for the utility of seeing the show. If $100 tickets ultimately get sold for $2,000 to actual attendees, the original seller significa…

You're right: it's speculation. I should have used that term outright. The problem I see is that it's speculation with a known outcome. If I buy gas or oil forward contracts, it's a play with non-zero risk. Iran might declare war or we might invent Mr Fusion tomorrow. So far so good. But with a concert, let's be a bit more realistic. If the Rolling Stones decide to tour and play in your town this year you can be 100.…

I think the terms "no possible way" and "100% sure" are inappropriate for an economic discussion. There's always the possibility of some event occurring.

What you're implying is that there is infinite demand for a Rolling Stones concert at any price. As far as I know, this is a concept on the extreme edge of economic theory. Maybe there could be infinite demand for necessities like oxygen should we be forced to make a decision, but for a concert the notion is absurd. If the tickets were priced at $1,000,000 per seat, I doubt you would sell out.

The bottom line is that there IS an appropriate price which will maximize consumer and producer surplus utility (the positive difference between what you were willing to buy/sell the goods for and what you actually bought/sold the goods for), and scalpers/secondary markets will exist when the principal seller misprices the tickets. Without the secondary markets, that ideal price will probably not be reached, and there will be a shortage or surplus of the goods.

Re: Louis C.K. sees ticket scalping drop over 96% by selling tickets himself

#136

Post by vacri »

xenophanes wrote: post #104
brianpan wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm definitely not an econ expert (far from it). Scalpers may not be confusing demand. But aren't they're artificially constraining supply? There are a limited number of shows and seats available. If I'm a scalper and I buy the last 100 seats (or rather, I have the last 100 seats not taken by someone who actually is going), I can now sell the tickets at a premium. If there are only 75 more fans that want to go, they…

It's not scalpers who are constraining supply. If a show has 1000 seats, and 900 fans buy the first 900, and never consider reselling at any price, then they are the ones constraining supply relative to an efficient market. (And there's nothing wrong with that, shrug.) The scalpers, by reselling tickets instead of just holding them and ignoring the market price, actually are increasing the amount of tickets available…

wow... you consider a market to be something which maximises all possible monies rather than something where you obtain something for use. No wonder this 'scalpers are helping the system' theme sounds crazy.

Re: Louis C.K. sees ticket scalping drop over 96% by selling tickets himself

#137

Post by nooneelse »

ionforce wrote: post #131
nooneelse wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. And what is the incentive for an artist to allow his/her fans to have their wealth extracted by a third party? None. It only makes the fans less able to buy things from the artist in the future. Louis C.K. is cultivating/nurturing his fans like a gardener cultivates/nurtures a plant. That clearly includes not letting insects eat the leaves off of a plant one intends to get an ongoing crop from.

The incentive is to allow a specific sect of well-to-do fans access to his show that they didn't get otherwise. Whether or not you agree with that incentive is entirely separate.

I still don't see how that is an incentive to allow a third party to extract anything from the transaction. He could run an auction for tickets himself to satisfy that desire (if he had it).

Re: Louis C.K. sees ticket scalping drop over 96% by selling tickets himself

#138

Post by vacri »

larrys wrote: post #108
joezydeco wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C'mon, let's have a little reality here. Anyone that has tried to deal with buying tickets (either in today's system or even back in the old days where you had to stand in line) knows that there are people with large sums of cash willing to pay people to stand in line or bombard ticketmaster.com with requests to land tickets for a show they have no intention of seeing. They resell those tickets immediately for a prof…

"more time and resources than you can jump ahead of you in line and, as a result either deny you an experience or make you pay more out of pocket for it." Isn't that the way the world works? We aren't talking about access to food, education, or healthcare here. We're talking about entertainment. Is there a particular reason why someone with more time or money shouldn't have an edge and be able to spend their money to…

How does being upgraded to the first-class cabin deprive a poorer person of flying?

And no, it's not a blanket statement of the way the world works. There's plenty of things like copyright that prevent a gorilla just coming along and taking your toys for themselves.

Re: Louis C.K. sees ticket scalping drop over 96% by selling tickets himself

#140

Post by vacri »

larrys wrote: post #106
alxp wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Performers now know that they lose good will when a fan has to pay a scalper to see them. Louis C.K. is earning tons of good will by doing this, and the only person who loses out is the scalper. Wealthier fans have always been able to work the system to get extra tickets, back stage access, etc.

"Louis C.K. is earning tons of good will by doing this" People want to see Louis because he is funny. The minute he stops being funny all that good will won't mean a thing.

And people won't purchase a luxury car if the engine doesn't work. Clearly that means there's no difference between a luxury and regular car, right?
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