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Writes and Write-Nots

paulgraham.com

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Re: Writes and Write-Nots

#101

Post by throw_pm23 »

ducttapecrown wrote: post #94

I think of writing as similar to a linear extension of a partial order. Your brain doesn't think a single letter at a time, instead, all of your neurons are doing neuron things all at the same time. But writing is linear. This forces order and I think is partially responsible for the "clear thinking" ascribed to writing! Hopefully I'll live the couple of decades to find out if PG's prediction is correct, I would bet…

As someone working on linear extensions of partial orders (some of the time), I found your observation very insightful, a perspective I haven't considered before.

Re: Writes and Write-Nots

#102

Post by disqard »

ducttapecrown wrote: post #94

I think of writing as similar to a linear extension of a partial order. Your brain doesn't think a single letter at a time, instead, all of your neurons are doing neuron things all at the same time. But writing is linear. This forces order and I think is partially responsible for the "clear thinking" ascribed to writing! Hopefully I'll live the couple of decades to find out if PG's prediction is correct, I would bet…

I don't always agree with everything PG writes.

Here however, I do agree with his articulation -- "writing is thinking" -- and like you, I've thought a bit about the linear nature of writing.

My view is that the "jumble" of ideas/concepts/perspectives is just that -- a jumbled mess -- and the process of linearizing that mess requires certain cognitive aspects that we (humans) generally consider as constituting intelligence. IMO, the rapid generation of grammatically-correct + coherent linear sequences by LLMs is one reason some folks ascribe "intelligence" to them.

I liked his analogy about how the disappearance of widespread physical work meant that one now had to intentionally invest Time and Effort (at the gym) to maintain physical health. The facile nature of LLMs' "spitting out a linear sequence of words" will mean fewer and fewer people will continue to exercise the mental muscles to do that linearization on their own (unassisted by AI), and consequently, will experience widespread atrophy thereof.

Re: Writes and Write-Nots

#104

Post by grvdrm »

meowface wrote: post #63
rcarmo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just get going. Quoting https://randsinrepose.com/archives/your-writing/ : * Less than 1% of your writing will be life-changing. * 3% will be trivial to write. * 4% will strongly resonate with others in a way you didn’t expect. * 5% will be quite good. * 15% probably should’ve never been published. * 26% will elicit a reaction you did not expect. Positive or negative. * 28% will become vastly better because you chose…

>* 100% of your writing is worth your time. Just curious, but do you think my collective 20 years of random posts across 10+ social media platforms, often with thousands of posts per platform, has been worth my time?

What's "worth" in this question?

May be hard to answer. My view from the same behavior: yes, worth it.

Was everything productive for a career? For a relationship with someone else? Sometimes yes. Sometimes no.

Would love to hear your thoughts on my first question!

Re: Writes and Write-Nots

#105

Post by amadeuspagel »

safety1st wrote: post #79
tim333 wrote: post #76

>in a couple decades there won't be many people who can write seems quite wrong to me. If anything the trend seems to go the other way - when I was younger pre internet most communication was face to face or voice over the phone. Now the predominant thing seems text - sms, whatsapp, this text box I'm typing into now. I saw a stat the other day that online / app dating had gone from a minority to over 50% of how coupl…

10-15 years ago I think this take was correct, the Internet was about writing. It isn't anymore, not for newer generations - e.g. Gen Z spending most of their time on Tiktok and phones, and not knowing how to use a word processor. In the span of ~30 years pg is talking about I can absolutely imagine some job where you speak to the AI and it writes the documents for you and you never learned how to write one yourself.…

TikTok videos are embedded in text -- titles, usernames, descriptions, comments. It's very different from TV, and if anything if it replaces TV it will make newer generations more literate, not less.

Re: Writes and Write-Nots

#106

Post by Swizec »

safety1st wrote: post #79
tim333 wrote: post #76

>in a couple decades there won't be many people who can write seems quite wrong to me. If anything the trend seems to go the other way - when I was younger pre internet most communication was face to face or voice over the phone. Now the predominant thing seems text - sms, whatsapp, this text box I'm typing into now. I saw a stat the other day that online / app dating had gone from a minority to over 50% of how coupl…

10-15 years ago I think this take was correct, the Internet was about writing. It isn't anymore, not for newer generations - e.g. Gen Z spending most of their time on Tiktok and phones, and not knowing how to use a word processor. In the span of ~30 years pg is talking about I can absolutely imagine some job where you speak to the AI and it writes the documents for you and you never learned how to write one yourself.…

> It isn't anymore, not for newer generations - e.g. Gen Z spending most of their time on Tiktok and phones, and not knowing how to use a word processor.

This is a classic fallacy as old as society. “Whatever the hoi polloi are doing is by definition not the good stuff”. But long-term whatever the masses are doing always wins.

You know Shakespeare? He was the rube who thought plays could be entertaining to the masses. How quaint and silly, who would expect a commoner to appreciate a play. pfft.

Mozart? Taylor Swift of his day.

Printing press? Don’t even get me started, ew the commoners think they can just, like, write things down? How rude.

I’m as much an anti-fan of the short video communication trend as anyone, but it works. When bandwidth is cheap and video recording ubiquitous, video is a great medium. Who cares what you say, show me.

edit to add an uncomfortable truth: The in-crowd talks to develop ideas. What you see in writing is weeks, months, or even years behind the bleeding edge.

Re: Writes and Write-Nots

#107

Post by thih9 »

tim333 wrote: post #76

>in a couple decades there won't be many people who can write seems quite wrong to me. If anything the trend seems to go the other way - when I was younger pre internet most communication was face to face or voice over the phone. Now the predominant thing seems text - sms, whatsapp, this text box I'm typing into now. I saw a stat the other day that online / app dating had gone from a minority to over 50% of how coupl…

> That said long form text may be different but those who write novels and the like were always a minority.

I think this is the article’s point - that this minority is going to shrink even more.

Re: Writes and Write-Nots

#108

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

rcarmo wrote: post #78
meowface wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>* 100% of your writing is worth your time. Just curious, but do you think my collective 20 years of random posts across 10+ social media platforms, often with thousands of posts per platform, has been worth my time?

Well, I think mine have. There were some weird tweets, but on average… yeah.

> some weird tweets

Sounds like some of the 15% or some of the 28%. :)

Re: Writes and Write-Nots

#109

Post by astrobe_ »

tim333 wrote: post #95
safety1st wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10-15 years ago I think this take was correct, the Internet was about writing. It isn't anymore, not for newer generations - e.g. Gen Z spending most of their time on Tiktok and phones, and not knowing how to use a word processor. In the span of ~30 years pg is talking about I can absolutely imagine some job where you speak to the AI and it writes the documents for you and you never learned how to write one yourself.…

Curious about your hypothesis, I went on Tiktok and clicked trending. The top thing (clips from Superstore I think) had 16535 text comments on it though mostly stuff like >"Don't you hate Tuesdays?" "AHHHHHH" so not really long-form essays. Maybe the future is that stuff?

The present is already non-written communication with Emojis. This supports TFA's thesis, as these forms of communication are about emotions, not thinking. Maybe it is a bit unfair to pick a media that focuses on video/image, though.

Re: Writes and Write-Nots

#110

Post by charles_f »

> I'm usually reluctant to make predictions about technology, but I feel fairly confident about this one

It's interesting to be usually cautious but then predict something so radical, and yet with no real argument other than "AI is gonna replace us".

Painting should have been replaced by photography, but it hasn't been. In my opinion, there are still plenty of people who want to write, so there will still be plenty of people who know how to write.

And maybe my opinion is wrong, because it's an opinion. But to have to transform it to a certainty, I'd have to see much, much more data than a feeling and a conviction.

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