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How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

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Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#81
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This makes me sad. I gotta say, I think I agree. Maybe it's just rose-tinted-glasses, but I remember a time when software was split between "IBM-Corpo" culture, and zany SV/MIT/Caltech culture where people threw things at the wall and proceeded when stuff stuck. It kind of saddens me that it feels like it's now only IBM-Corpo, and everyone feels the need to be ever-productive and adhere to strict rules and schema. t…

Bring back counterculture hackers

What do you mean, back! There's more than ever! We're overflowing with talented peeps hacking on cool things, writing nice blogs publishing zines, and so forth and on!

The formerly-counterculture conventions got so cult and big they grew a counter-counterculture of smaller places.

Outside the walls of the AI SaaS grind. There be life.

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I play, just not in the same terms as my work. For example, I shoot bad guys, but I also know people in the military who refuse to play FPS games.

When I asked Kovařík about this, he brought up Euro Truck Simulator, a wilfully mundane game about hauling cargo. The developers, who are friends of his, once told him that many of their most enthusiastic players are ... truckers. Truckers who spend their time off from their trucking jobs pretending to do more trucking ... a lot of people actually enjoy the work they do. They just don’t always enjoy their jobs that m…

There's a whole genre of such games.

- Modern Farming. Has really good working models of expensive farming equipment. There are videos of real farmers playing it.

- Lawnmower Simulator. Yes, really. Mow enough lawns, get a better mower.

- Power Wash Simulator. Not kidding.[1]

The first game in this category was probably the famous Desert Bus.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5G-2qTupCk

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#83
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I asked Kovařík about this, he brought up Euro Truck Simulator, a wilfully mundane game about hauling cargo. The developers, who are friends of his, once told him that many of their most enthusiastic players are ... truckers. Truckers who spend their time off from their trucking jobs pretending to do more trucking ... a lot of people actually enjoy the work they do. They just don’t always enjoy their jobs that m…

There's a whole genre of such games. - Modern Farming. Has really good working models of expensive farming equipment. There are videos of real farmers playing it. - Lawnmower Simulator. Yes, really. Mow enough lawns, get a better mower. - Power Wash Simulator. Not kidding.[1] The first game in this category was probably the famous Desert Bus. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5G-2qTupCk

If you like Power Wash Simulator, you'll LOVE the relaxing meditative idle game Paint Drying Simulator, and the exquisite organic fractal patina of its sequel, Paint Peeling Simulator. ;)

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#84
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bring back counterculture hackers

What do you mean, back! There's more than ever! We're overflowing with talented peeps hacking on cool things, writing nice blogs publishing zines, and so forth and on! The formerly-counterculture conventions got so cult and big they grew a counter-counterculture of smaller places. Outside the walls of the AI SaaS grind. There be life.

Haha, any recommendations?

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#85
post #78
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This makes me sad. I gotta say, I think I agree. Maybe it's just rose-tinted-glasses, but I remember a time when software was split between "IBM-Corpo" culture, and zany SV/MIT/Caltech culture where people threw things at the wall and proceeded when stuff stuck. It kind of saddens me that it feels like it's now only IBM-Corpo, and everyone feels the need to be ever-productive and adhere to strict rules and schema. t…

The hacker culture is still there but hacker social media (unless carefully curated) is flooded with optimized content to the point where the cool stuff is hard to find and you only see the grifter techs.

Nah, they're still there, you merely have to know where to look. Most hackers I know eschew social media appearances.

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funnily enough, I actually used to play America's Army 3, a game which explicitly was funded by the DoD. It was pretty fun, not gonna lie, much more tactical than many other shooters during that time.

But by your own measure, you're not killing actual people, so why waste your time? Do you finally get it now?

My work is not killing actual people, so your analogy is flawed.

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#87
post #78
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This makes me sad. I gotta say, I think I agree. Maybe it's just rose-tinted-glasses, but I remember a time when software was split between "IBM-Corpo" culture, and zany SV/MIT/Caltech culture where people threw things at the wall and proceeded when stuff stuck. It kind of saddens me that it feels like it's now only IBM-Corpo, and everyone feels the need to be ever-productive and adhere to strict rules and schema. t…

The hacker culture is still there but hacker social media (unless carefully curated) is flooded with optimized content to the point where the cool stuff is hard to find and you only see the grifter techs.

Eric S Raymond deserves credit for pioneering the grifter tech exploitation of hacker culture.

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#88
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean, back! There's more than ever! We're overflowing with talented peeps hacking on cool things, writing nice blogs publishing zines, and so forth and on! The formerly-counterculture conventions got so cult and big they grew a counter-counterculture of smaller places. Outside the walls of the AI SaaS grind. There be life.

Haha, any recommendations?

See if your area has any local makerspaces/hackerspaces or regional conferences like BSides.

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#89
post #50
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its just fun. "Okay wth, today we're going to make the entire base solar powered" When making software that's supposed to be used, you can't mess around that much. At the end of the day, someone has to use it and if its weird it'll be bad. But in Factorio? Nobody is using it so sure, make it bizzare. Change the rules, let yourself go. Don't test the design just send it. Bored? Too challenging? Don't bother finishing…

> When making software that's supposed to be used, you can't mess around that much. At the end of the day, someone has to use it and if its weird it'll be bad. This makes me sad. You don’t need to make software for mass appeal. Git is weird and bizarre (especially when initially released), but it’s used and well loved.

Nods in Emacs.

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#90

I know lots of people who play Factorio but for me, I guess it just feels too much like work? Whenever I play it, I get the distinct feeling that I could instead do the same thing but productively instead, such as by contributing to my OSS projects (sometimes, maybe even for profit instead). I never got into these types of programmatic games for precisely this reason but I'd like to understand other perspectives on t…

Splitting from the experiences of others, I think the mentality somewhat comes down to your preference in what you seek to do in videogames and how you engage with them. In these types of sandbox building games, career developers naturally get somewhat of a "cheat" to becoming proficient quickly in that the mode of expressing logical sentiments will only ever be a few abstractions away from what you would do normally at your work, so you feel less constrained to building understanding of a system and can instead use the system as a way to output your ideas in a way faster than others might. In this sense, it's somewhat of a power fantasy that if you vs the average person were to play this game that you would most likely be able to clearly express your ideas and goals and be able to act on them, which makes it fun to go off the rails to show off "some crazy thing" you've made as a slight nod to your perceived skill being able to make these things.

Consequently, that's why I'm so disinterested in learning these games. The discussion about them shifts into a thin one layer abstraction for other people to try to brag about their accomplishments and what they self injected as their experience instead of the game itself. This doesn't affect the gameplay, but it affects my perception of the game as a shallow vehicle for attention seekers more than it promotes the ideas of fun gameplay.

That said, sometimes the style of gameplay resonates with a style of development you might have been interested in understanding more and can use it as a way to get motivation or inspiration for ideas. Automating pipelines, physics simulations, etc. I think it's always worth a shot on games that have notable recognition of quality to see if it jives with what you enjoy, but it's been the exception more than the rule in my case.

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