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On Linux MAINTAINERS file removal of Russian developers

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Re: On Linux MAINTAINERS file removal of Russian developers

#51

Post by krisoft »

instagraham wrote: post #48
krisoft wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To what extent can most people actually move the needle of their government's actions? I’m not unsimpathic to this argument. In wars innocent people gets hurt. Sometimes that means your name is removed from a text file, sometimes it means that your family is blown up in a missile attack. Either way the solution is the same: stop the war and take the troops home. I’m not going to adress the textbook whataboutism lin…

It matters because software projects are border-agnostic. There are people who benefit from code, and people who benefit from having people contribute to code. You drew the line on who gets to be a part of this, Geopoliticising something ostensibly unpolitical. If you want a rule of law in code, you’ll need more than a framework that only punishes Russia. Otherwise it’s no longer open source, it’s America-source. For…

> I just don’t see what you expect Russians to do by nuking them from a Linux maintainer list.

Finding alternative employment with a non-sactioned company would be a start.

Re: On Linux MAINTAINERS file removal of Russian developers

#52

Post by protomolecule »

sligor wrote: post #17

People should stop to use the term "Russian developers", this attracts a lot of people complaining about Russophobia (either innocently or not...) They were removed NOT because of being Russian but because of their link to Russian state owned company (also, either legitimately or by mistake...)

[flagged]

Re: On Linux MAINTAINERS file removal of Russian developers

#53

Post by protomolecule »

mdp2021 wrote: post #46
google_boy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One second to find using Google: https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/23/linus_torvalds_affirm... Quote in the middle of the article.

No, you misunderstood the statement. That article on the Register I had abundantly read when it came out. The poster should show that that one sentence from Torvalds could be dismissed - we do not know exactly what interventions he called "trolls". Maybe they were, maybe they were not.

You can read the part of the lkml thread preceding Linus' message.

Re: On Linux MAINTAINERS file removal of Russian developers

#56

Post by instagraham »

krisoft wrote: post #51
instagraham wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It matters because software projects are border-agnostic. There are people who benefit from code, and people who benefit from having people contribute to code. You drew the line on who gets to be a part of this, Geopoliticising something ostensibly unpolitical. If you want a rule of law in code, you’ll need more than a framework that only punishes Russia. Otherwise it’s no longer open source, it’s America-source. For…

> I just don’t see what you expect Russians to do by nuking them from a Linux maintainer list. Finding alternative employment with a non-sactioned company would be a start.

i agree that's not an unreasonable ask. but if code is to serve geopolitics, then we'll get a lot more (and tougher) situations like this to grapple with. perhaps it's just that I wish code was left neutral.

Re: On Linux MAINTAINERS file removal of Russian developers

#57

Post by rightbyte »

chikere232 wrote: post #16

At this point I kinda have to assume posts like these are just concern trolling and aren't really worth taking seriously If it's genuinely naive, this is a great time to wake up to the fact that russia is conducting a war of conquest against a european country, and this is why they, and a bunch of companies associated with that, are being sanctioned. Why would any reasonable project try to circumvent such sanctions?

I guess Torwalds does not have much choice living in the US. But it is concerning.

> genuinely naive

I don't get this angle. My take is that 'naive' people believe they are the good guys. They emotionally rationalize when their tribe indirectly or directly drops bombs on children and get all worked up when a tribe their elders dislike do it. They are destablizing and part of the problem picture.

You could argue US sanctions are counterproductive and are dividing.

A 'people should work out their differences and be friends' is not naive. It is a 'ye the US and Russia more or less arbitrarily invade other countries from time to time. That is bad. Lets not get in the way'.

Noam Chomsky or Henry Kissinger would like a word with all these mental shenanigans.

Re: On Linux MAINTAINERS file removal of Russian developers

#58

Post by tharmas »

chikere232 wrote: post #16

At this point I kinda have to assume posts like these are just concern trolling and aren't really worth taking seriously If it's genuinely naive, this is a great time to wake up to the fact that russia is conducting a war of conquest against a european country, and this is why they, and a bunch of companies associated with that, are being sanctioned. Why would any reasonable project try to circumvent such sanctions?

Please see Prof John Mearsheimer regarding Ukraine.

Re: On Linux MAINTAINERS file removal of Russian developers

#59

Post by sshine »

sshine wrote: post #50
chikere232 wrote: post #16

At this point I kinda have to assume posts like these are just concern trolling and aren't really worth taking seriously If it's genuinely naive, this is a great time to wake up to the fact that russia is conducting a war of conquest against a european country, and this is why they, and a bunch of companies associated with that, are being sanctioned. Why would any reasonable project try to circumvent such sanctions?

[flagged]

Since I got downvoted:

I'm not saying their invasion of Ukraine isn't terrible.

I'm just not used to think of Ukraine and Russia as being European countries.

But they sure are on the European continent.

It just seems that Russians then get regarded as the outsiders when Russia is also a European country.

Re: On Linux MAINTAINERS file removal of Russian developers

#60

Post by rightbyte »

sshine wrote: post #59
sshine wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Since I got downvoted: I'm not saying their invasion of Ukraine isn't terrible. I'm just not used to think of Ukraine and Russia as being European countries. But they sure are on the European continent. It just seems that Russians then get regarded as the outsiders when Russia is also a European country.

In my experience when most Europeans say 'Europe' or 'Europeans' they mean every country and nationality except their own.
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