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Wikipedia article blocked worldwide by Delhi high court

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Re: Wikipedia article blocked worldwide by Delhi high court

#41

Post by selimthegrim »

zmgsabst wrote: post #39
fireflash38 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think that there's a link between an extreme proliferation of misinformation and people wanting to control it?

No. Media has always been salacious nonsense — at least, judging from the 1880s English newspapers I’ve read as part of a research writing class: they’re full of complete lies about Jack the Ripper, for instance. Most of the discussion from government is using that perennial fact to justify suppressing true information — eg, suppressing the Hunter Biden laptop story or people’s personal experiences with the COVID vac…

The chain of custody issues alone render the laptop story incredible

Re: Wikipedia article blocked worldwide by Delhi high court

#42

Post by alwayslikethis »

I wonder what would be an effective countermeasure against stuff like this. Maybe we need a write-only global database and somehow separate the hosting/publisher from the organization that certifies it. Imagine if they simply sign an archive which is distributed over IPFS or some other distributed system. It would become impossible to take down content and as such impossible to comply with any blocking orders. They can issue a revocation but users are no obligated to respect that.

Re: Wikipedia article blocked worldwide by Delhi high court

#43

Post by Schiendelman »

lnxg33k1 wrote: post #36
PeterCorless wrote: post #18

Thank you. We're seeing a far more insidious and accelerating nationalization and politicization of reality. A very dangerous world ahead.

[flagged]

It looks like it was well sourced. What are you seeing?

Re: Wikipedia article blocked worldwide by Delhi high court

#44

Post by jltsiren »

greatgib wrote: post #14
jprete wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the court order specifies that it be taken down worldwide, and the court order isn't definitely illegal according to Indian law, and the Wikimedia Foundation has operations in India that they want to preserve, they may not have a choice.

I don't think that the Indian court has legitimacy to block the article to be displayed worldwide. It has no jurisdicition for the citizens of all other countries and also no jurisdiction against content that is not hosted in India. But I guess that it was maybe more convenient for the wikimedia foundation to do it like that instead of doing geofencing that they might not have?

The legitimacy of Indian courts is something only Indian citizens and people living in India can decide. Other people may have opinions, but they are more or less irrelevant.

Anyway, the fundamental issue here is that domestic rulings often have international consequences. As a sovereign state, India obviously has the right to ban the Wikimedia Foundation, or any other foreign entity, from doing business within the county. That right is an essential aspect of sovereignty. If they don't like you, they can ban you. But if the Wikimedia Foundation values access to India more than their right to host a particular article, they may choose to comply with the demands of an Indian court, even in matters where the court does not have jurisdiction. And that compliance would technically be voluntary.

Re: Wikipedia article blocked worldwide by Delhi high court

#45

Post by tomrod »

praveen9920 wrote: post #26
fwipsy wrote: post #15

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_News_International covers the lawsuit as well. "In July 2024, ANI filed a lawsuit against Wikimedia Foundation in the Delhi High Court — claiming to have been defamed in its article on Wikipedia — and sought ₹2 crore (US$240,000) in damages.[16][17][18] On 5 September, the Court threatened to hold Wikimedia guilty of contempt for failing to disclose information about the editors…

No. You read the statements right. Indian judges tend to give such statements, sometimes even worse. For example, recently one judge in unrelated case gave a statement that “criminalising marital rape is bit harsh”. The main problem in this case is that Wikimedia hasn’t complied YET with high court orders of revealing people who did the edits. ANI just went ahead and filed contempt of court case before Wiki legal tea…

Sounds like an authoritarian government that should be ignored.

Re: Wikipedia article blocked worldwide by Delhi high court

#46

Post by tomrod »

zelse wrote: post #40
praveen9920 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. You read the statements right. Indian judges tend to give such statements, sometimes even worse. For example, recently one judge in unrelated case gave a statement that “criminalising marital rape is bit harsh”. The main problem in this case is that Wikimedia hasn’t complied YET with high court orders of revealing people who did the edits. ANI just went ahead and filed contempt of court case before Wiki legal tea…

This. They're following the Orban-Erdogan-Harper (International Democratic Union) playbook - purge the judiciary of independent judges, control the news media, and open culture-war fronts to distract and sap the strength of opposition while riling up your base. The situation in the world's largest democracy is a very dire one.

Indeed.

Re: Wikipedia article blocked worldwide by Delhi high court

#47

Post by alwayslikethis »

okasaki wrote: post #19
mouse_ wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that pulling out of India would be an incredibly difficult move to even consider. But abandoning all principles should be as well.

Why is following other countries' laws viewed as "abandoning all principles"? A few days ago Linux removed all Russian maintainers to follow US laws. Has the Linux Foundation abandoned all principles? Should they have fought the US government?

In some sense, they did. The spirit of free software is inherently pro-freedom and against any external actors being able to pressure your entity into submission. This includes any and all legal threats or orders. Look at the history of PGP for an instance of fighting the US government to defend a greater principle.

In practice you can't fight everyone all at once. On the net it may be better to compromise on some to defend others you cherish more.

Re: Wikipedia article blocked worldwide by Delhi high court

#48

Post by tomrod »

lnxg33k1 wrote: post #36
PeterCorless wrote: post #18

Thank you. We're seeing a far more insidious and accelerating nationalization and politicization of reality. A very dangerous world ahead.

[flagged]

Recommend reviewing some the other comments with sources listed in this thread. Basically, they preemptively levied contempt charges before there was a chance to respond, and the statements were sourced.

Re: Wikipedia article blocked worldwide by Delhi high court

#49

Post by contravariant »

fwipsy wrote: post #15

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_News_International covers the lawsuit as well. "In July 2024, ANI filed a lawsuit against Wikimedia Foundation in the Delhi High Court — claiming to have been defamed in its article on Wikipedia — and sought ₹2 crore (US$240,000) in damages.[16][17][18] On 5 September, the Court threatened to hold Wikimedia guilty of contempt for failing to disclose information about the editors…

That's an actual quote? That's so, juvenile. And it admits pretty much all of the 'defamation' that Wikipedia is being sued for.

Also a bit stupid to ask someone to not work in India if they point out they have no legal presence there. If they really have no presence in India it might make most sense to just call their bluff. The government does indeed have the power to block the webpage but there's no winning against a government that is willing to go that far. One can only hope that blocking wikipedia is unpopular enough to give the government pause.

Re: Wikipedia article blocked worldwide by Delhi high court

#50

Post by tomrod »

Liftyee wrote: post #31

Time to sit back and wait for the Streisand effect [0] to kick in... When will they learn that trying to hide things from the Internet is never that simple (as evidenced by the already-posted archive links)? [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

Indeed. I never would have heard or cared about this statement or the high court. Now, I'll let the rage driven by an unwarranted attack against a purely beneficial institution cool a bit from white hot before engaging.
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