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We can now fix McDonald's ice cream machines

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Re: We can now fix McDonald's ice cream machines

#61

Post by pbhjpbhj »

yreg wrote: post #23

I've heard plenty of stories about the MCD ice cream machines, but it doesn't add up for me. Can someone who has more insight shed some light into this? - Are the machines listed as "broken" on https://mcbroken.com/ actually broken? Or is that more of a meme, with many just undergoing routine cleaning, etc.? - Why does this seemingly happen only in US? In European McDonald's it's pretty much unheard of. - Why would M…

In UK McDo often have broken ice-cream machines too, at least where I've been. It seems to be higher incidence than other fastfood outlets (Burger King, KFC), but that might be observer bias.

I just figure margins must be low on their ice-creams, so when it's broken they sell more fountain drinks and make more money than they would if the ice-cream machine was fixed.

Re: We can now fix McDonald's ice cream machines

#62

Post by coder543 »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #60
coder543 wrote: post #10

I wish we would just repeal the DMCA. Under no circumstances should we need an exemption from the copyright office just to be able to repair an ice cream machine. It's not even a permanent exemption! The DMCA causes many weird problems.

Do you think people should face consequences for piracy? If not, should DRM be legal then?

I’m not a lawyer, but I think it’s pretty clear that piracy is not illegal because of the DMCA; it’s illegal because it violates normal copyright laws. Repealing the DMCA would not change the legal status of piracy.

Repealing the DMCA also wouldn’t make DRM illegal, but DRM would still be exactly as (in)effective as it has already proven to be countless times. DRM has done nothing to restrict piracy, as far as I can tell.

Repealing the DMCA would simply allow people to more freely break DRM in pursuit of lawful purposes, which are currently restricted unfairly, including activities that would fall strictly under Fair Use. I would argue the DMCA is infringing my legal rights for no benefit to society.

Distributing copies of copyrighted content without authorization was unlawful long before the DMCA, outside of Fair Use scenarios.

Re: We can now fix McDonald's ice cream machines

#63

Post by StrangeDoctor »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #60
coder543 wrote: post #10

I wish we would just repeal the DMCA. Under no circumstances should we need an exemption from the copyright office just to be able to repair an ice cream machine. It's not even a permanent exemption! The DMCA causes many weird problems.

Do you think people should face consequences for piracy? If not, should DRM be legal then?

(not op) I think DMCA specifically should be repealed. We can still have DRM/Copyright/etc if enough people want it, we could look at other systems, but DMCA itself is awful. Repealing it doesn't make any statement about piracy.

Re: We can now fix McDonald's ice cream machines

#64

Post by twothreeone »

coder543 wrote: post #10

I wish we would just repeal the DMCA. Under no circumstances should we need an exemption from the copyright office just to be able to repair an ice cream machine. It's not even a permanent exemption! The DMCA causes many weird problems.

It's still weird to me that we ended up in a world in which every bit of information can now be copied at zero cost and instead of heralding and building upon that technological achievement we've somehow decided that instead we're going to make laws to protect and enforce rent seeking instead. I assume it's one of those things where a few corpos just outplayed 99% of the population; just like universal health care, or public education.

Re: We can now fix McDonald's ice cream machines

#65

Post by xbar »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #60
coder543 wrote: post #10

I wish we would just repeal the DMCA. Under no circumstances should we need an exemption from the copyright office just to be able to repair an ice cream machine. It's not even a permanent exemption! The DMCA causes many weird problems.

Do you think people should face consequences for piracy? If not, should DRM be legal then?

Piracy was just as Federally illegal prior to the DMCA. Think back to Streetfighter....

Re: We can now fix McDonald's ice cream machines

#66

Post by 0x457 »

yreg wrote: post #23

I've heard plenty of stories about the MCD ice cream machines, but it doesn't add up for me. Can someone who has more insight shed some light into this? - Are the machines listed as "broken" on https://mcbroken.com/ actually broken? Or is that more of a meme, with many just undergoing routine cleaning, etc.? - Why does this seemingly happen only in US? In European McDonald's it's pretty much unheard of. - Why would M…

> - Why does this seemingly happen only in US? In European McDonald's it's pretty much unheard of.

Because only in the US, employees fill it up above max line.

Re: We can now fix McDonald's ice cream machines

#67

Post by recursive »

Aloisius wrote: post #29
recursive wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also all about Taylor's exclusivity on repairing the machines.

Eh. Taylor doesn't fix the machines. You actually get a contract with an independent certified technician - quite often provided through the reseller who sold the machine.

Certified by a Taylor-accredited organization. The money all goes the same way. A distinction without a difference.

Re: We can now fix McDonald's ice cream machines

#68

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

mcdow wrote: post #9

Here's a great YT video on why McDonald's ice cream machines are always broken: https://youtu.be/SrDEtSlqJC4 TL;DW: there are some perverse incentives to keep them broken. Basically the owner operators are forced to use a particular brand by corporate. Corporate McDonalds has a deal with a particular ice cream machine company. That particular company is the only company owner operators are allowed to buy from, and th…

Most importantly, McDonalds has a strong incentive to avoid headlines like "37 people hospitalized after shit-bacteria in improperly maintained ice cream machine", which is why the machines self-monitor and shut down at the slightest excursion from some specified norm.

And McD wants the machines maintained by the official technician, because they'd rather screw their franchisees a bit than risk someone ripping out the offending sensor.

IMO, the perverse incentives come on top of this (Taylor has no motivation to make the machines more transparent since they profit from the call-outs, McD either doesn't care or may even prefer this since it could reduce the risk of "creative" solutions like an employee holding an ice cube next to a sensor), but the "McD would rather have 50% of the ice cream machines 'broken' than have a single one serve E.Coli to its customers" is what kicked this whole thing off.

Re: We can now fix McDonald's ice cream machines

#69

Post by Aloisius »

recursive wrote: post #67
Aloisius wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh. Taylor doesn't fix the machines. You actually get a contract with an independent certified technician - quite often provided through the reseller who sold the machine.

Certified by a Taylor-accredited organization. The money all goes the same way. A distinction without a difference.

Taylor doesn't get paid for the vast majority of repairs. The money goes to the independent technician.

They make some money for replacement parts, but that's rarely more than the occasional o-ring.

Re: We can now fix McDonald's ice cream machines

#70

Post by staplers »

twothreeone wrote: post #64
coder543 wrote: post #10

I wish we would just repeal the DMCA. Under no circumstances should we need an exemption from the copyright office just to be able to repair an ice cream machine. It's not even a permanent exemption! The DMCA causes many weird problems.

It's still weird to me that we ended up in a world in which every bit of information can now be copied at zero cost and instead of heralding and building upon that technological achievement we've somehow decided that instead we're going to make laws to protect and enforce rent seeking instead. I assume it's one of those things where a few corpos just outplayed 99% of the population; just like universal health care, o…

   I assume it's one of those things where a few corpos just outplayed 99% of the population
"The key element of social control is the strategy of distraction that is to divert public attention from important issues and changes decided by political and economic elites"

-Chomsky

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