Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

nih.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 111 posts

Re: The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

#61

Post by tptacek »

jmpman wrote: post #53
PaulKeeble wrote: post #4

There have been a couple of papers [1] that can induce this process while awake using particular image patterns as confirmed in an MRI. I think the NIH confirmation is running behind in the science, independent research is quite a bit ahead of them. I came across the paper on this last year and implemented a very simple page with the parameters they used [2]. There is a number of disease models that show reduced or n…

I’d like to see if anyone with Fatal Familial Insomnia has been treated with this pattern. I expected that insomnia stops this glymphatic clearance, and that’s what eventually kills them.

Isn't it the prions gradually destroying their brain that's killing them?

Re: The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

#63

Post by sithadmin »

hobs wrote: post #48
sithadmin wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That just sounds like ASMR, which some folks can induce without external stimuli.

I think you are thinking of Frission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisson

No, the prior post's reference to having some degree of control over the sensation, plus a prolonged impact on mental state makes it distinctly ASMR, as opposed to frission which is usually a short-lasting involuntary response. [1]

[1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6086079/

Re: The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

#64

Post by Workaccount2 »

ClearAndPresent wrote: post #59
PaulKeeble wrote: post #4

There have been a couple of papers [1] that can induce this process while awake using particular image patterns as confirmed in an MRI. I think the NIH confirmation is running behind in the science, independent research is quite a bit ahead of them. I came across the paper on this last year and implemented a very simple page with the parameters they used [2]. There is a number of disease models that show reduced or n…

Paul's animation wasn't playing at an even rate for me, for some reason, so I created two video versions (8Hz and 12Hz) with the 16 second on/off period, starting with an off period, running for 254 seconds, as per the paper. These versions end with an an additional off period, as a 'cool down' from the flicker. Framerate of 24Hz differs from the 120Hz as presented in the paper, but here there is no 40Hz flicker atte…

What is the difference or use cases for 8Hz vs. 12Hz?

Re: The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

#65

Post by sharpshadow »

mfro wrote: post #57
lazypenguin wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you recall which position?

> Glymphatic transport is most efficient in the right lateral sleeping position https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7698404/ Section 3.4.3

Yes that’s the position. Good to see it verified in the study. Having a partner and sleeping in the same bed can lead to alterations from the optimal sleeping position, especially sleeping on the back is not good. Sleeping on the back is also one of the main causes of snoring, which often occurs in people which have a big belly and can’t really sleep lateralish anymore.

Sleep quality is important too and one big factor is not to go to sleep with a full stomach. Sleep quality will suffer because of the active digestion which probably will not let the glymphatic transport do it’s job properly.

Also good to know that “…low doses of alcohol (0.5 g/kg) increased glymphatic clearance…”.

Re: The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

#66

Post by lagniappe »

ClearAndPresent wrote: post #59
PaulKeeble wrote: post #4

There have been a couple of papers [1] that can induce this process while awake using particular image patterns as confirmed in an MRI. I think the NIH confirmation is running behind in the science, independent research is quite a bit ahead of them. I came across the paper on this last year and implemented a very simple page with the parameters they used [2]. There is a number of disease models that show reduced or n…

Paul's animation wasn't playing at an even rate for me, for some reason, so I created two video versions (8Hz and 12Hz) with the 16 second on/off period, starting with an off period, running for 254 seconds, as per the paper. These versions end with an an additional off period, as a 'cool down' from the flicker. Framerate of 24Hz differs from the 120Hz as presented in the paper, but here there is no 40Hz flicker atte…

I stared at the 8hz one, for the entire duration, and I feel a calm afterward, however I'm not sure if this is because I stopped doing/thinking for a few minutes with measured breathing or if it is me noticing the difference now that there's a lack of stimuli after the video ends.

What measurements or tests can I do to judge whether something is happening, or has happened after watching the videos?

Re: The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

#67

Post by altruios »

haccount wrote: post #43
khafra wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is some amazing work; and it also raises my belief that a Langford Basilisk is neurologically possible by about 25%

It's possible. But only for the brains of people with severe or undertreated epilepsy of carefully selected varieties. You can trigger a potentially fatal seizure by showing them an appropriately stimulating image. Which likely was a known concept to the author of the story. For the rest of us the negative feedback along the optical axis puts a stop to such shenanigans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCollough_effect is evidence to the contrary. This seems to rewire something outside the optical pathway. The effect can last for months. Works on almost all brains, no epilepsy required...

Re: The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

#68

Post by froh »

bdd8f1df777b wrote: post #49
flotzam wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very cool! Five minutes of this felt strangely soothing in my head, after a few nights of not enough sleep. Being able to set a max duration would be neat, in case it's unsafe to lose track of time and let the pattern run for too long? Classic outdated comment BTW ;) setInterval(flickerImage, 250); // 8hz

When I open the page, the image rotates for about ten seconds then vanishes. How do you watch it for five minutes? What did I do wrong?

give it a bit, it then reappears (as described in the paper, btw)

Re: The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

#69

Post by LinuxBender »

wyldfire wrote: post #46
LinuxBender wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think technically you need a script for any MRI I'm in the US. I am guessing a script is the same thing wherever you are as what is called a referral here. I will ask around. Thankyou for the idea. I will research what outpatient imaging facilities are around me. Would they use some kind of mirror system to watch this image? I can't imagine a PC could be near the MRI.

"script" is "prescription" (here in US and possibly elsewhere). Imaging techniques generally require them because medicine considers the potential harm of giving patients an inconclusive diagnosis or a conclusive diagnosis for which there's no treatment. Without a symptom to weigh against these risks, it makes some sense to consider them as not "over the counter". But in practice I think you can show up at any imagin…

I will give that a shot. A family member was a signalman for the railroad for over 40 years and got melanoma back when there was no treatment for it. Perhaps that may suffice.

Re: The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

#70

Post by criddell »

ClearAndPresent wrote: post #59
PaulKeeble wrote: post #4

There have been a couple of papers [1] that can induce this process while awake using particular image patterns as confirmed in an MRI. I think the NIH confirmation is running behind in the science, independent research is quite a bit ahead of them. I came across the paper on this last year and implemented a very simple page with the parameters they used [2]. There is a number of disease models that show reduced or n…

Paul's animation wasn't playing at an even rate for me, for some reason, so I created two video versions (8Hz and 12Hz) with the 16 second on/off period, starting with an off period, running for 254 seconds, as per the paper. These versions end with an an additional off period, as a 'cool down' from the flicker. Framerate of 24Hz differs from the 120Hz as presented in the paper, but here there is no 40Hz flicker atte…

The idea that watching a video triggers some waste clearing mechanism is pretty wild.

Makes me think of Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash where a datafile can be a narcotic or mind virus. Maybe that's not such a crazy idea?

Post reply on HN