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The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

nih.gov

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Re: The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

#21

Post by giantg2 »

PaulKeeble wrote: post #4

There have been a couple of papers [1] that can induce this process while awake using particular image patterns as confirmed in an MRI. I think the NIH confirmation is running behind in the science, independent research is quite a bit ahead of them. I came across the paper on this last year and implemented a very simple page with the parameters they used [2]. There is a number of disease models that show reduced or n…

Wow, that is wild. I never would have thought that simply watching images would trigger something in the lymphatic system. This could have huge implications for multiple diseases.

Re: The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

#22

Post by giantg2 »

LinuxBender wrote: post #20
PaulKeeble wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its very much experimental so we don't know if there are people for whom this has no impact, all the people in the studies respond so the question is whether your cerebral spinal fluid is being pumped around and flushing your brain and you don't feel an impact or whether you get no cerebral spine fluid movement at all. Someone would need to recreate this experiment with you in the MRI to find out which it is.

What is one supposed to experience or feel? Maybe my computer is too slow or my monitor is too small? I used to collect gifs that were similar to this just because they had a neat visual effect but neither those nor this image gives me any kind of experience. If I could find a private business that has an MRI I would pay cash to get a full body scan and then just a brain scan as I have always wanted one but hospitals…

The places that specialize in full body scans will do it for cash. I think technically you need a script for any MRI, so you may still need to speak with a doctor ar their facility first. My understanding is it's more streamlined there and will be way cheaper than any hospital. If you talk to your primary or can get a telemedicine appointment online then they might be willing to write you the script and you can go to a local MRI. I would avoid the hospital as they are 5x higher in cost than my local outpatient imaging facility.

Re: The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

#23

Post by LinuxBender »

giantg2 wrote: post #22
LinuxBender wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is one supposed to experience or feel? Maybe my computer is too slow or my monitor is too small? I used to collect gifs that were similar to this just because they had a neat visual effect but neither those nor this image gives me any kind of experience. If I could find a private business that has an MRI I would pay cash to get a full body scan and then just a brain scan as I have always wanted one but hospitals…

The places that specialize in full body scans will do it for cash. I think technically you need a script for any MRI, so you may still need to speak with a doctor ar their facility first. My understanding is it's more streamlined there and will be way cheaper than any hospital. If you talk to your primary or can get a telemedicine appointment online then they might be willing to write you the script and you can go to…

I think technically you need a script for any MRI

I'm in the US. I am guessing a script is the same thing wherever you are as what is called a referral here. I will ask around. Thankyou for the idea. I will research what outpatient imaging facilities are around me. Would they use some kind of mirror system to watch this image? I can't imagine a PC could be near the MRI.

Re: The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

#24

Post by PaulKeeble »

LinuxBender wrote: post #20
PaulKeeble wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its very much experimental so we don't know if there are people for whom this has no impact, all the people in the studies respond so the question is whether your cerebral spinal fluid is being pumped around and flushing your brain and you don't feel an impact or whether you get no cerebral spine fluid movement at all. Someone would need to recreate this experiment with you in the MRI to find out which it is.

What is one supposed to experience or feel? Maybe my computer is too slow or my monitor is too small? I used to collect gifs that were similar to this just because they had a neat visual effect but neither those nor this image gives me any kind of experience. If I could find a private business that has an MRI I would pay cash to get a full body scan and then just a brain scan as I have always wanted one but hospitals…

After focussing on the dot for a few seconds the images appear to produce a tunnel or other change in effect from just images flipping, maybe a moving star. Then when the grey image appears you get an after effect of the overall image for about a second. Some feel a form of pressure or even light seizure sensation in the brain and have auditory experience like there was a sound that disappears each time the grey clearing screen appears.Then afterwards some people feel a bit cognitively fatigued, drunk even for a few minutes to hours.

It feels odd, its hard to describe it feels like something weird is happening in the brain.

Re: The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

#25

Post by jb1991 »

elric wrote: post #2

It's taken 12 years to get from "this stuff exists in mice" to "we now know it actually exists in humans and is not vestigial". That seems like a long time. People get brain MRIs with contrast all the time, is there any reason why this never showed up? Because no one was looking? Or because it's a slow mechanism?

The main reason is because 12 years ago we didn't have ChatGPT to tell the researchers the answer.

Re: The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

#26

Post by LinuxBender »

PaulKeeble wrote: post #24
LinuxBender wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is one supposed to experience or feel? Maybe my computer is too slow or my monitor is too small? I used to collect gifs that were similar to this just because they had a neat visual effect but neither those nor this image gives me any kind of experience. If I could find a private business that has an MRI I would pay cash to get a full body scan and then just a brain scan as I have always wanted one but hospitals…

After focussing on the dot for a few seconds the images appear to produce a tunnel or other change in effect from just images flipping, maybe a moving star. Then when the grey image appears you get an after effect of the overall image for about a second. Some feel a form of pressure or even light seizure sensation in the brain and have auditory experience like there was a sound that disappears each time the grey clea…

Interesting. So I do get the over-shadow effect for about 1.5 seconds but I get that from any bright light that transitions to a grey background mostly from taking high dose benfotiamine, along with lutein and astaxanthin and chelated copper as my nervous system was being depleted of thiamine due to a dumb self induced issue that I have nearly resolved. Maybe I am not a good test subject for that reason. Or perhaps my monitor is too bright.

Edit: I reduced the brightness, contrast and changed the black mode of the monitor and went through several cycles. I still get the over-shadow effect for anywhere from 1.5 to 2 seconds but no other effects. Perhaps my supplements are interfering or confounding. I guess it may be useful to note what supplements the test subject is consuming along with dosage to determine if that is a confounding factor.

Re: The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

#27

Post by assadk »

feoren wrote: post #19
PaulKeeble wrote: post #4

There have been a couple of papers [1] that can induce this process while awake using particular image patterns as confirmed in an MRI. I think the NIH confirmation is running behind in the science, independent research is quite a bit ahead of them. I came across the paper on this last year and implemented a very simple page with the parameters they used [2]. There is a number of disease models that show reduced or n…

Staring at the v0.3 produces an effect similar to something I'm able to do trigger manually on command. I've always had the feeling that I'm somehow triggering a "flow" in my brain, but I have no way to confirm what's actually going on. It's actually stronger when I trigger it manually, and it feels like it flows down my spine and eventually some weak signal reaches my extremities. (Maybe that means it's not CSF afte…

How have you trained yourself to do that?

Re: The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

#28

Post by rozab »

reverius42 wrote: post #13
khafra wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is some amazing work; and it also raises my belief that a Langford Basilisk is neurologically possible by about 25%

Thanks for introducing me to the concept! Just read the short story I assume you are referring to: https://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/blit.htm

I hadn't heard of this one before, it's also similar to the crucifix glitch in Peter Watts' Blindsight

Re: The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

#29

Post by rozab »

elric wrote: post #2

It's taken 12 years to get from "this stuff exists in mice" to "we now know it actually exists in humans and is not vestigial". That seems like a long time. People get brain MRIs with contrast all the time, is there any reason why this never showed up? Because no one was looking? Or because it's a slow mechanism?

They injected a dye into the cerebrospinal fluid to confirm the pattern of diffusion into the brain.

I imagine this procedure would have to be confirmed safe in humans first. Also they needed subjects who already happened to be undergoing a specific type of brain surgery.

Re: The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

#30

Post by haccount »

PaulKeeble wrote: post #4

There have been a couple of papers [1] that can induce this process while awake using particular image patterns as confirmed in an MRI. I think the NIH confirmation is running behind in the science, independent research is quite a bit ahead of them. I came across the paper on this last year and implemented a very simple page with the parameters they used [2]. There is a number of disease models that show reduced or n…

It is well established that visual patterns affect brain activity, this is used in clinical practice by neurophysiologists, put on an EEG cap and then do checkerboards, check if the activity is normal.

Now the question is if this provocation and resulting CSF flow is actually beneficial. Do you spike activity and get a rebound attempt at waste clearing due to waste accumulation of the neural spike, or is this like a massage for the brain that gives you a invigorating CSF dump?

I suspect it might not be a health improving activity. (I also suspect that you can get even more CSF flowing if you spin yourself at 6G in a full body centrifuge and that this too would not be conductive to health)

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