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Survival tips if you find yourself in the Middle Ages?

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Re: Survival tips if you find yourself in the Middle Ages?

#71

Post by randallsquared »

ntoshev wrote: post #69
nostrademons wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most modern crops have been bred or genetically engineered so that they physically cannot survive on their own. They need petrochemical fertilizers to grow, pesticides to fend off insects & fungi & disease, mechanized tilling to penetrate the ground, and artificial supports so they can stand up and avoid keeling over. In my sustainable agriculture course, I read that modern grain varieties put 60% of their photosynth…

Thanks for the insight. It's interesting why the external work supplied to the plants still costs less than growing plants that can do these things itself. I suppose chemistry and mechanization in agriculture are just much more efficient than their biological counterparts.

Almost certainly not more efficient, but growing plants can't use oil directly, and since we can supply enormous amounts of external energy by the standards of a crop plant, engineering them to be able to use it more effectively is useful even if the plant itself is less efficient overall.

Re: Survival tips if you find yourself in the Middle Ages?

#72

Post by ntoshev »

randallsquared wrote: post #71
ntoshev wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the insight. It's interesting why the external work supplied to the plants still costs less than growing plants that can do these things itself. I suppose chemistry and mechanization in agriculture are just much more efficient than their biological counterparts.

Almost certainly not more efficient, but growing plants can't use oil directly, and since we can supply enormous amounts of external energy by the standards of a crop plant, engineering them to be able to use it more effectively is useful even if the plant itself is less efficient overall.

Not sure if energy is important part of the equation. Protection from diseases and weather doesn't seem to require energy, it's about chemistry and structure.

Re: Survival tips if you find yourself in the Middle Ages?

#73

Post by pg »

markessien wrote: post #66
pg wrote: post #2

1000 plus or minus 200 years covers a huge range. 1000 was just about the fulcrum of the medieval period: life in 800 would have been a complete disaster, whereas life in 1200 was in some places a mini-Renaissance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_of_the_12th_century If you really got dropped at a random place, it would probably be grazing land or forest, especially in 800. You'd have to find the nearest tiny…

I think your ideas about this period are similar to ideas that the chinese people have about the U.S - many think that the U.S is overrun by gangsters and terrorists and lots of other dangers. Why is that? Because people only write about the drama. If you actually travel to any existing country where there are small villages, you will see that strangers are always treated with great friendliness and respect. If someo…

There are a lot of stories about robbery, but in reality, human societies don't function when people steal a lot.

By present standards, society didn't function in most of medieval Europe, especially in 800. That's why the flourishing trade of the Roman era was replaced by subsistence farming. Banditry had replaced pax Romana.

The rich didn't ride in carriages in the period we're talking about. The roads were too bad. Carriages didn't come into widespread use till centuries later.

Re: Survival tips if you find yourself in the Middle Ages?

#74

Post by nostrademons »

randallsquared wrote: post #71
ntoshev wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the insight. It's interesting why the external work supplied to the plants still costs less than growing plants that can do these things itself. I suppose chemistry and mechanization in agriculture are just much more efficient than their biological counterparts.

Almost certainly not more efficient, but growing plants can't use oil directly, and since we can supply enormous amounts of external energy by the standards of a crop plant, engineering them to be able to use it more effectively is useful even if the plant itself is less efficient overall.

Almost any sort of mechanical or chemical process is more efficient than plants. Photosynthesis is only 3% efficient; by the time the energy enters the plant, you've lost 97% of it. Then you figure various biological pathways, and you're down to maybe 1-2% efficiency for the best plants.

This, among other reasons, is why grain ethanol was such a scam.

The worst mechanical processes, by contrast, usually get at least 10-15% efficiency. That's what photovoltaics can do, for example. Gasoline engines have a thermal efficiency of about 30%, diesel about 45%. Granted, you lose energy in the extraction/refining/transportation steps, but it's still an order of magnitude more efficient than photosynthesis.

Re: Survival tips if you find yourself in the Middle Ages?

#76

Post by bd »

ntoshev wrote: post #69
nostrademons wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most modern crops have been bred or genetically engineered so that they physically cannot survive on their own. They need petrochemical fertilizers to grow, pesticides to fend off insects & fungi & disease, mechanized tilling to penetrate the ground, and artificial supports so they can stand up and avoid keeling over. In my sustainable agriculture course, I read that modern grain varieties put 60% of their photosynth…

Thanks for the insight. It's interesting why the external work supplied to the plants still costs less than growing plants that can do these things itself. I suppose chemistry and mechanization in agriculture are just much more efficient than their biological counterparts.

Using externally supplied fossil-fuel is kind of cheating. The energy still comes from photosynthesis, but the energy that was created over eons is used in (geological) moments.

It's somehow similar venture capital. It's a resource produced in older times that allows you to get temporary advantage compared to somebody that uses just in-time generated resources.

Re: Survival tips if you find yourself in the Middle Ages?

#77

Post by ctkrohn »

lionheart wrote: post #24
vaksel wrote: post #17

there are a few series that cover that area.(not exact mind you, but close enough) First you have the Assati Shards series(1632, 1633, 1634)...basically a town in Virginia get transferred to Germany in 1632. And then you have the Conrad the Engineer series, where you have a guy transported to 13th century Poland, just before the Mongol invasion. But chances are, no matter where you wind up...you'll be dead within a w…

The language barrier is an interesting point. I wonder if there are any places with languages that haven't changed that much? Do you think I might be able to get along in the Middle East in 1000 AD if I knew modern Hebrew?

Modern Icelandic is very close to medieval Icelandic as spoken by the Vikings. Apparently, manuscripts of the sagas can be read and interpreted by an Icelandic speaker with no special training, just as you or I could read an original printing of one of Shakespeare's plays.

Re: Survival tips if you find yourself in the Middle Ages?

#79

Post by patio11 »

icey wrote: post #20
mechanical_fish wrote: post #3

Prediction is impossible, we all know that. What we don't know is that retrodiction is also impossible. History is a form of science fiction. The future is history that hasn't happened yet. History is the sensibility of one time, assessing another time, that it cannot possibly know. -- Bruce Sterling, http://www.viridiandesign.org/notes/1-25/Note%2000001.txt

Superman can't really fly, but he's still fun to watch.

That depends... which Superman are we talking about? Lois and Clark Superman or get-her-pregnant-then-zoom-off-to-Krypton Superman?

Re: Survival tips if you find yourself in the Middle Ages?

#80

Post by marketer »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #16

What would you do to prepare if you knew the journey back in time would start in one hour?

I suppose it would be like an extended camping trip.

First I'd go to the local book store and buy as many survival guides as I can get my hands on.

Then I'd buy some high quality tools - knives, leathermans, nail clippers, matches, first aid kits, etc..... Many of these would be priceless for that era.

I'd try to buy a small waterproof tent. Maybe a sleeping bag if it's not too large to carry. If not a sleeping bag, at least pack some warm water-resistant clothes.

If there's time I'd print out some Wikipedia articles about agriculture techniques, subsistence farming, natural medicines and fertilizers. Maybe find some information about edible insects and plants. Basically anything that helps you survive in the beginning.

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