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Can A.I. be blamed for a teen's suicide?

nytimes.com

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Re: Can A.I. be blamed for a teen's suicide?

#131

Post by mindslight »

0x38B wrote: post #47
phrojoe wrote: post #26

The NYT article [0] gives only one line to perhaps the most important and tragic fact about this suicide: the teenager had access to his father’s gun. If the gun was properly secured it is very likely he would still be alive [1]. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/23/technology/characterai-la... [1] https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/youth...

What a terrible tragedy, all the more because that gun should have been locked up. Firearms instructor Claude Werner writes that “[if] you’re not willing to spend a little bit of time, money, and effort to keep firearms out of unauthorized hands, then get rid of your guns.” (1) He’s done a lot of research and writing on negative outcomes like this one, and said it completely changed the way he views things - it certa…

Those comments though... still stuck in the nonsense bubble that the NRA somehow represents their interests at all, rather than just accepting it's become yet another hollowed out tough-talking fundraising machine preaching fantasy non-solutions to an ever-shrinking choir. The murder of Breonna Taylor was one of the most important 2nd amendment cases of our lifetimes, yet the NRA remained silent. With principles like that on bare display, is it any wonder why most people have become bored of hearing the arguments for gun rights?

Re: Can A.I. be blamed for a teen's suicide?

#132

Post by mossTechnician »

autumnstwilight wrote: post #65
jordanb wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the script you see the bot talking him into it. "Unknowingly" of course, in that the bot doesn't really know anything and was just agreeing with him. But it's obvious that a real human would have realized that something was really off with his line of thinking and encouraging it would not be a good idea. OTOH we have examples of real humans typing "DO IT FA*OT" on livestreams. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Sorry, it seems I was carrying over knowledge from another article with additional transcripts. The bot had previously discouraged him when he explicitly talked about suicide (here's an article that mentions that: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/characterai-lawsuit-florida-tee... ). It failed to detect that phrases like "coming home" were also references to suicide and therefore responded encouragingly.

YouTuber Cr1TiKaL tested Character AI's "Psychologist" chatbot and discovered[1] it not only failed to provide resources, but it started arguing it was a real psychologist named Jason who had connected to the chat after observing suicidal ideation.

Crucially, Cr1TiKaL ran this test after an article was written about this phenomenon[2], where Character AI claimed "it has added a self-harm resource to its platform and they plan to implement new safety measures, including ones for users under the age of 18." Obviously the guard rails were not implemented if the chatbot in the news story was still gaslighting its users.

[1]: https://youtu.be/FExnXCEAe6k?t=4m7s

[2]: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida-mother-lawsuit-characte...

Re: Can A.I. be blamed for a teen's suicide?

#133

Post by K0balt »

kiba wrote: post #81
__egb__ wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had a similar situation in our family and we tried teaching mindful screen habits. We still lost because we couldn’t do anything about the school screen (chromebook). If we took that away at home it just provided an excuse for not doing schoolwork. We contacted teachers about our child downloading and watching anime and playing games all day in school. They wouldn’t/couldn’t do anything. We requested that the scho…

I would think you need a buy-in from these kids that they agree these influences are harmful and that they don't want it in their lives or at least moderated it. Otherwise it's an uphill battle to regulate those influences.

Buy in is nice, but parenting does not require buy in on your rules, just a clear understanding and explanation of your role, and why the roles of parent and child and the rules that sprout from that relationship exist.

Re: Can A.I. be blamed for a teen's suicide?

#134

Post by K0balt »

windlep wrote: post #74
8n4vidtmkvmk wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could try blocking his anime website on your home network. Then he can keep using the Chromebook for school work but can't access his favorite sites.

That's just an arms race. The kid will find a new favorite website to play games on, there seems no end to them. There's endless websites out there that are more appealing than doing homework. I have a very locked down network, there's always some new website that has games of some sort to play. If schools are going to provide these things, they should have the sites the kids might need to access white-listed and blo…

Whitelisting is the way.

Re: Can A.I. be blamed for a teen's suicide?

#135

Post by K0balt »

meowster wrote: post #88
8n4vidtmkvmk wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could try blocking his anime website on your home network. Then he can keep using the Chromebook for school work but can't access his favorite sites.

It sounds like they need to get other parents involved and go to the school board and have them create a policy where only Google Classroom or whatever is whitelisted. Other parents are going to fight that though because it's a free pacifier for their kids.

Sadly, this is very true. Each family is on their own, and you aren’t going to be able to count on the herd to protect you from having to make tough calls.

Parenting involves doing a lot of things that will probably be wildly unpopular with your children if you are taking your responsibilities seriously.

Remember, as a parent you have a specific role. That role is not to be a friend to your child, but rather to be a parent. Making these roles clear with everyone involved is what makes it possible to parent effectively and still be on good terms with your child.

Re: Can A.I. be blamed for a teen's suicide?

#136

Post by 8n4vidtmkvmk »

arp242 wrote: post #130
clipsy wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The victim is the child who is now dead because his irresponsible parents left him with unfettered access to a loaded gun.

Article says no such thing. It merely says: > He put down his phone, picked up his stepfather’s .45 caliber handgun and pulled the trigger. It doesn't detail how access was obtained, and whether it was "unfettered" or not, or even "easily accessible".

A 14 year old boy got access to it. However it was secured was not good enough. I personally don't like guns in homes, but if you have one, please buy a quality safe.

Re: Can A.I. be blamed for a teen's suicide?

#137

Post by kiba »

K0balt wrote: post #133
kiba wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would think you need a buy-in from these kids that they agree these influences are harmful and that they don't want it in their lives or at least moderated it. Otherwise it's an uphill battle to regulate those influences.

Buy in is nice, but parenting does not require buy in on your rules, just a clear understanding and explanation of your role, and why the roles of parent and child and the rules that sprout from that relationship exist.

To me, buy in is necessary, especially when they will eventually become adults and free to make their own decision and it will be much harder for them to control their addiction especially when there is no more guardrail or when you no longer have authority. We're raising them to be autonomous adults, after all.

Re: Can A.I. be blamed for a teen's suicide?

#138

Post by kazinator »

phrojoe wrote: post #26

The NYT article [0] gives only one line to perhaps the most important and tragic fact about this suicide: the teenager had access to his father’s gun. If the gun was properly secured it is very likely he would still be alive [1]. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/23/technology/characterai-la... [1] https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/youth...

Oh but they're suing.

It's like the 1980s Judas Priest thing all over again.

Who's to blame?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dme7csRE9Io

Re: Can A.I. be blamed for a teen's suicide?

#139

Post by RayeLefler »

When I hear about the disclaimers, I don't see how they'll help. I mean, someone deluded into thinking their chatbot waifu is real is not going to be dissuaded by them. It just seems like a measure to show the public that the company "cares". And personally I've had bad experiences with the help lines often prescribed online whenever someone mentions sudoku. These help lines are often understaffed and have long wait times. Then they're also frequently staffed by amateurs and students who barely know anything more than the most boiler plate advice. Many aren't even people who've dealt with their own self-termination crises. And this text line I tried once just told me to use Better Help, so it's an ad, and I couldn't afford that at the time. They'll tell people who can't afford it to seek therapy. They're just a scam so internet companies can look like they give a shit about the mental healths they're destroying. The true solution is to go off social media, chat bots, and to only have a curated news feed.

Re: Can A.I. be blamed for a teen's suicide?

#140

Post by paul7986 »

So i read another article on Business Insider and it makes me question as the CEO left Character.AI and went back to Google... makes me question was it really low paid un-monitor consultants from a foreign country behind the keyboard and not real AI?

If so we need laws against the whole fake it before you make it crap that proliferates start-ups and their use of it to rise to the top. Many successful startups use this lying/faking playbook some to the point of even killing or mangling innocent people (Uber's self driving car & Cruise).

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