If this was purely because of sanctions, this could have been handled much more gracefully. But it's clear from Linus' comments that he just doesn't respect these volunteers because they happen to be from a particular country. > I'm Finnish. ... Apparently it's not just lack of real news, it's lack of history knowledge too. If we're suddenly taking history as a criterion, half of the world should ban British develope…
You missed the point, he didn't mention history in general, but specifically "Finnish history". In this respect it's not about British colonialism but more about about Russian imperialism / Stalinism (see Russo-Finnish war 1939).
Linus Torvalds comments on the Russian Linux maintainers being delisted
181–190 of 251 posts
Re: Linus Torvalds comments on the Russian Linux maintainers being delisted
#182If this was purely because of sanctions, this could have been handled much more gracefully. But it's clear from Linus' comments that he just doesn't respect these volunteers because they happen to be from a particular country. > I'm Finnish. ... Apparently it's not just lack of real news, it's lack of history knowledge too. If we're suddenly taking history as a criterion, half of the world should ban British develope…
Russia is unique in that they are both presently and historically a threat to the entire western world.
Re: Linus Torvalds comments on the Russian Linux maintainers being delisted
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
Did he just now realized that history? For over 30 years accepting contributions from the "enemy"? Then when the history is employed, how about he as a Finn bans also Swedish contributors?
Did you just realized that Torvald is not racist or anti-russian at all? He didn't block any russian maintainers until today (more than 2 years after russia turning genocidal imperial again).
Re: Linus Torvalds comments on the Russian Linux maintainers being delisted
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
>I'm also not going to start discussing legal issues with random internet people who I seriously suspect are paid actors and/or have been riled up by them. Oh boy, everyone who disagrees with me works for the Kremlin.
There are in reality a lot of people who work for the Kremlin or have been riled up by them. I'm not sure he's that paranoid to suspect that.
Re: Linus Torvalds comments on the Russian Linux maintainers being delisted
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
I know this will get flagged and I'll get called a Russian despite being an American from flyover country: Yes, one definitely can tenably make that argument. The Monroe Doctrine, ironically, was precipitated by negotiations with Russia[1] and is almost identical in its aims for the Western Hemisphere as Putin's nominal arguments against NATO expansion eastward, namely the assertion that the Western Hemisphere was cl…
Russia's nuclear arsenal made and makes the idea of conquering Russia by force absolutely impossible to contemplate. The US and others pursued the objectives of military strength, normalized relations with Russia, and decreasing its influence with its neighbors and proxies. The goals are obvious, open, and benign. Everyone wants a Russia that is stable, economically entwined with limited influence on their neighbors…
For historical examples, you can look at Carthage under the Romans prior to the Third Punic War, the Saxons under the Normans after Hastings, or the Native Americans under the United States. There are others.
For contemporary examples, you can look at the Palestinians under the Israelis (or the Israelis not-quite-under the Arab world) or even the Ukrainians themselves under the Russians!
In each of these struggles, the dominant hegemon and its allies want a dominated rival that is "stable, economically entwined with limited influence on their neighbors beyond economic ties. No tendrils of malevolent influence or proxies." Which is to say, totally compliant with their controller and inert as a geopolitical force as they are salami sliced at will.
Russia's response to NATO's expansion is a contemporary example of this. Much like other weaker states in history facing incremental encroachment, Russia is blamed for destabilizing the region, while the more powerful actors continue policies that provoke and escalate the situation. The expectation that the weaker side alone should de-escalate or withdraw ignores the external pressures that limit their autonomy and drive their actions.
These narratives are almost always self-serving and oversimplify the situation by placing full responsibility on the weaker party, masking the larger power dynamics at play. Throughout history, dominant states have used this framing to justify the gradual weakening and containment of their adversaries, presenting their own expansionist or aggressive strategies as benign or defensive while shifting the blame onto those they are dismantling.
All I'm saying is these narratives of "I'm purely defensively containing you so I can eliminate you" are ubiquitous throughout history, but the best of those in the dominant position still understood that it was an ignoble lie even as they struggled against and were dragged along by them. The world would likely be healthier if we emulated them rather than those that always claim that their enemies are historically unlrecedented and uniquely Very Bad Persons[3].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_salami_slicing_strateg...
[2] https://dangerousintersection.org/2020/06/25/recognizing-and...
Re: Linus Torvalds comments on the Russian Linux maintainers being delisted
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
As long as I am summarizing your thesis accurately, I see no problem at all. As it happens, I haven't intentionally read anything on Twitter for well over a decade. But if it is helpful for you to simply assume that, should anyone care to question your deep, penetrating analysis of recent human history and its impact on current events today; and even worse, fail to appreciate your enthusiasm for run-on paragraphs ful…
>[...] peppered with fancy latin idioms (for style I guess) [...] I honestly don't think you understand the thesis or have the historical understanding to do so. This accusation of using Latin for rhetorical purposes is an admission of this. You could've asked yourself "Do I understand the significance of Carthago delenda est in this context? Could I ask for clarification?" No, you just made a sophistic jibe, twice.…
And if you prefer to believe that if people don't buy into your hand-wavy, faux-erudite arguments, then it must be because they're simply too dumb to understand the intended import of Carthago delenda est -- then that may provide you with an additional layer of comfort.
I honestly don't think you understand the thesis or have the historical understanding to do so.
The precious irony here is that this very sentence is an overt instance of the second class on Paul's list of argument styles to avoid, in the very article you cite (and attempt to chide others for not having read) -- the venerable ad hominem attack. (The other sentence quoted above was essentially a variant of this attack, if in a slightly roundabout fashion).
Speaking of fancy latin phrases.
Re: Linus Torvalds comments on the Russian Linux maintainers being delisted
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you want perfect fairness for bullies, not victims, then you don’t actually care about victims at all. This whataboutism is a circular argument where any brazen invasion can be justified by some previous perceived slight. Because someone somewhere got away with something, now anything is permissible.
[flagged]
This is so, so ridiculous take of the war that I refuse to believe there are any significant number of people outside of Russia believing this. NATO/US is forcing Russia to destroy Ukraine, really now? They really are forced to wage an expansionist, genocidal war against a small neighbour?
Re: Linus Torvalds comments on the Russian Linux maintainers being delisted
#188If this was purely because of sanctions, this could have been handled much more gracefully. But it's clear from Linus' comments that he just doesn't respect these volunteers because they happen to be from a particular country. > I'm Finnish. ... Apparently it's not just lack of real news, it's lack of history knowledge too. If we're suddenly taking history as a criterion, half of the world should ban British develope…
You missed the point, he didn't mention history in general, but specifically "Finnish history". In this respect it's not about British colonialism but more about about Russian imperialism / Stalinism (see Russo-Finnish war 1939).
And even with Linux, it's not Linus' personal project anymore, hasn't been for decades - it's a global project with developers from many countries with their own views and biases. Being BDFL doesn't mean that your geopolitical agenda becomes the whole project's. Or at least, it wasn't so blatantly put on display previously that that was the case.
A high profile project like Linux doing this will have long term repercussions for how open source operates globally.
Re: Linus Torvalds comments on the Russian Linux maintainers being delisted
#189If this was purely because of sanctions, this could have been handled much more gracefully. But it's clear from Linus' comments that he just doesn't respect these volunteers because they happen to be from a particular country. > I'm Finnish. ... Apparently it's not just lack of real news, it's lack of history knowledge too. If we're suddenly taking history as a criterion, half of the world should ban British develope…
Re: Linus Torvalds comments on the Russian Linux maintainers being delisted
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
Russia's nuclear arsenal made and makes the idea of conquering Russia by force absolutely impossible to contemplate. The US and others pursued the objectives of military strength, normalized relations with Russia, and decreasing its influence with its neighbors and proxies. The goals are obvious, open, and benign. Everyone wants a Russia that is stable, economically entwined with limited influence on their neighbors…
Your argument that Russia is solely responsible for destabilizing the region mirrors a familiar rhetorical pattern seen throughout history, where weaker powers are trapped in a Kafka trap[1]. Any resistance or reaction by the weaker side justifies further aggression from the stronger power, leading to their gradual erosion and disappearance through salami slicing tactics[2]. Whether through territorial encroachment o…
> Russia's response to NATO's expansion is a contemporary example of this
So this is what you got backwards. Just consider latest members, Finland and Sweden. Neither had any immediate plans to join before the war, but the bitter truth is that no neighbour of Russia is safe without an alliance providing a decisive military superiority.