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Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

finance.yahoo.com

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Re: Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

#121

Post by dartos »

gruez wrote: post #102
rootusrootus wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A very tiny one at that. $25M to Apple is a little over two hours of revenue, if my math is roughly correct.

Comparisons like this are absurd. Why should fines associated with a small segment of apple's business be compared to their global revenue? Is the implication that all offenses should be fined based on global revenue, such that if they broke some law in Liechtenstein that the government there should be able to demand 5% (or whatever) of apple's worldwide revenue?

The fine should be a deterrent.

If the fine is too low, it’s just absorbed as a “cost of doing business” and ceases to be a deterrent.

Re: Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

#122

Post by icelancer »

hirvi74 wrote: post #26
mensetmanusman wrote: post #2

“ The regulator also said Apple and Goldman misled many consumers into believing they would automatically get interest-free monthly payments when buying Apple devices. Instead, those same customers were charged interest.” Interesting! Will they notify those charged interest?

I've used the service plenty of times now, and was never charged interest. I wonder what situations lead this to happen? I know one has to select the payment option when purchasing through Apple and not all items are eligible. Maybe people just assumed the payment plans would be automatically and didn't require selecting the option during checkout?

Yeah, I don't think I was ever charged interest on Apple products either, but I wasn't paying that close of attention. I'll have to go back and check to see if I can get a sweet class action payout.

Re: Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

#123

Post by icelancer »

crowcroft wrote: post #114

Awkward time for Apple. - Moves into finance have been a failure, cancelling their BNPL as well. - Vision Pro basically dead at this point. - A large number of senior execs getting reshuffled/moving on from the company. - Apple Intelligence, still no where to be seen. This is most likely a Goldman Sachs issue, but still, who at Apple decided to partner with the bank that hasn't got any track record in consumer bankin…

Apple Intelligence is on the eligible devices in beta, I've had it for a little bit now. It's nothing exciting but I've been using it.

Re: Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

#124

Post by cageface »

crowcroft wrote: post #114

Awkward time for Apple. - Moves into finance have been a failure, cancelling their BNPL as well. - Vision Pro basically dead at this point. - A large number of senior execs getting reshuffled/moving on from the company. - Apple Intelligence, still no where to be seen. This is most likely a Goldman Sachs issue, but still, who at Apple decided to partner with the bank that hasn't got any track record in consumer bankin…

Also I've been working with their latest Swift & SwiftUI and I think they've made some fundamental missteps with the language and the APIs. Nothing that a company of Apple's size can't correct with enough effort I suppose but it doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in their software engineering chops.

Re: Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

#125

Post by zippergz »

xyst wrote: post #50
xp84 wrote: post #18

The article says they're banned from launching any more credit cards unless they can 'demonstrate they are going to follow the law' (whatever that means). This is really funny, because Goldman has been very public about how much they hate the Apple Card deal, and they have been and still are looking to unwind the deal or sell the portfolio, so something tells me this experiment in retail consumer finance is not somet…

Goldman has been winding down consumer bank operations for awhile. Checking/savings account division (Marcus?) was sold off or dissolved

News to me, since I still have a Marcus account that is fully functional and the website says "Goldman Sachs" all over it. I've been expecting it to split off or shut down at some point, but no signs of it so far from my perspective.

Re: Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

#126

Post by gruez »

dartos wrote: post #121
gruez wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparisons like this are absurd. Why should fines associated with a small segment of apple's business be compared to their global revenue? Is the implication that all offenses should be fined based on global revenue, such that if they broke some law in Liechtenstein that the government there should be able to demand 5% (or whatever) of apple's worldwide revenue?

The fine should be a deterrent. If the fine is too low, it’s just absorbed as a “cost of doing business” and ceases to be a deterrent.

>The fine should be a deterrent.

That's a reasonable position to hold, but crappy comparisons like in the OP doesn't contribute little to the discussion. The fine might be tiny part of worldwide revenue, but how much money are they making off apple cards? If that's tiny as well then the argument is moot.

Re: Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

#127

Post by lotsofpulp »

CSSer wrote: post #120
CPLX wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s actually some nuance to this. One of Apple’s big requirements was to have quite lax acceptance criteria. They didn’t want lots of their customers being denied for cards and creating a negative brand association. Apparently GS was up for that. Possibly because they didn’t actually know what they are doing. My understanding is the loss rate was way too high for them to be profitable. It was well covered at the…

Without simply citing greed, I find this difficult to justify or explain. Apple is a premium, luxury brand. They make opinionated hardware and software that has offended many. They’ve certainly never given a phone away, but they’re afraid of offending someone by turning them down if they have bad credit? Rubbish. Forgive me, I’m not trying to shoot the messenger. Nuance or not, I think GP is right. It wasn’t very cus…

> Apple is a premium, luxury brand.

People all across the income/wealth spectrum use Apple products, in huge proportions.

Re: Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

#128

Post by jordanmorgan10 »

I’ve spent over a…lot of money…on the Apple Card. It’s my wife and I’s primary card ever since it came out. Never paid any interest, and made lots of Daily Cash. More than anything I just find the wallet app so much more pleasant than other banking apps.

Re: Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

#129

Post by BobAliceInATree »

dartos wrote: post #121
gruez wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparisons like this are absurd. Why should fines associated with a small segment of apple's business be compared to their global revenue? Is the implication that all offenses should be fined based on global revenue, such that if they broke some law in Liechtenstein that the government there should be able to demand 5% (or whatever) of apple's worldwide revenue?

The fine should be a deterrent. If the fine is too low, it’s just absorbed as a “cost of doing business” and ceases to be a deterrent.

The total fine is ~3x the apparent consumer loss, which seems reasonable.

Re: Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

#130

Post by wkat4242 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #61
xyst wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably payment on GS backend was processed late even if customer initiated payment on the due date. So customer was charged interest. I was an early adopter of the AC during my Apple glazing days. Everybody has the same due date (end of month) and GS systems just could not handle the volume. I remember an auto payment taking a week to withdraw from my bank account and applied to account. I wasn’t charged interest a…

> an auto payment taking a week to withdraw from my bank account As an aside, for anyone using an Apple Card today, a handy way around this is to not make payments via ACH. Use your debit card with Apple Pay to pull money instantly into Apple Cash, then use that to instantly pay your credit card bill. An extra step, sure, but it's instant .

Why would you even use a credit card if you have the money? You don't have to bother with the loan aspects of the card then (and the paying off). You could just use a debit card.

This is what keeps me from even considering an apple card, I don't need any credit and getting credit registered against my name will make it more difficult to get a mortgage.

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