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Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

finance.yahoo.com

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Re: Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

#41

Post by JumpCrisscross »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #27
xp84 wrote: post #18

The article says they're banned from launching any more credit cards unless they can 'demonstrate they are going to follow the law' (whatever that means). This is really funny, because Goldman has been very public about how much they hate the Apple Card deal, and they have been and still are looking to unwind the deal or sell the portfolio, so something tells me this experiment in retail consumer finance is not somet…

That does give rise to the question: did Goldman intentionally do this with the idea they'd be shut down by the government?

> did Goldman intentionally do this with the idea they'd be shut down by the government?

No. For starters, because it doesn’t get them out of the deal.

Re: Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

#42

Post by toolz »

downrightmike wrote: post #20
xp84 wrote: post #18

The article says they're banned from launching any more credit cards unless they can 'demonstrate they are going to follow the law' (whatever that means). This is really funny, because Goldman has been very public about how much they hate the Apple Card deal, and they have been and still are looking to unwind the deal or sell the portfolio, so something tells me this experiment in retail consumer finance is not somet…

Goldman thought they were going to be able to fleece Apple's customers, but they can't. Good job Apple!

what am I missing? The article talks about apple failing to send consumer disputes, how is that on GS?

Re: Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

#43

Post by JumpCrisscross »

optimalsolver wrote: post #8
ChrisArchitect wrote: post #6

Source: CFPB Orders Apple and Goldman Sachs to Pay Over $89 Million for Apple Card Failures https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/newsroom/cfpb-order... ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41926162 )

Cost of doing business.

You can say this about literally any punishment.

Re: Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

#44

Post by 1-more »

bostik wrote: post #34
downrightmike wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Goldman thought they were going to be able to fleece Apple's customers, but they can't. Good job Apple!

For some reason I think it will have been even more mundane. It is quite a long time ago, but Matt Levine wrote at the time that GS was (for whatever reason) desperate to get into consumer finance. They saw the market as an open opportunity, and paired up with Apple to get a foothold reaching well beyond their Marcus brand. [Still paraphrasing Levine.] As one would expect, that didn't go well. Goldman Sachs as a comp…

Marcus still exists in the US. I use them for my savings account. They don't have anything besides that that I know of (checking, brokerage). Current APY 4.1% so as good as you can find in a savings account here.

Re: Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

#45

Post by kbolino »

mrastro wrote: post #39
dmonitor wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's only no interest as long as you make payments on time. I guess this is technically misleading advertising? It might also be that it only applied during specific circumstances (buying directly from Apple) instead of as a blanket offer. I've bought a few devices through this deal and personally am a happy customer, so I hope this doesn't kill it.

Isn't that every credit card? You pay your full balance on time it's essentially a delayed debit card because no interest is paid.

There's actually a term for this: charge card. Some American Express cards still work this way (i.e., you must always pay in full on time).

Re: Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

#46

Post by starttoaster »

1-more wrote: post #44
bostik wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason I think it will have been even more mundane. It is quite a long time ago, but Matt Levine wrote at the time that GS was (for whatever reason) desperate to get into consumer finance. They saw the market as an open opportunity, and paired up with Apple to get a foothold reaching well beyond their Marcus brand. [Still paraphrasing Levine.] As one would expect, that didn't go well. Goldman Sachs as a comp…

Marcus still exists in the US. I use them for my savings account. They don't have anything besides that that I know of (checking, brokerage). Current APY 4.1% so as good as you can find in a savings account here.

My American Express savings account gets me an APY of 4.1%, so there's other options, but agree that it seems like either are the best rate I've found in the US.

Re: Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

#47

Post by nonameiguess »

mrastro wrote: post #39
dmonitor wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's only no interest as long as you make payments on time. I guess this is technically misleading advertising? It might also be that it only applied during specific circumstances (buying directly from Apple) instead of as a blanket offer. I've bought a few devices through this deal and personally am a happy customer, so I hope this doesn't kill it.

Isn't that every credit card? You pay your full balance on time it's essentially a delayed debit card because no interest is paid.

You don't have to pay the Apple card balance in full to pay no interest. You just have to make the payments on the agreed-upon schedule. You're effectively doing something like splitting a $1200 purchase into 12 $100 payments or whatever, rather than that plus interest. No credit card I'm aware of will do that for purchases in general, but presumably it's worth it for a card issued by the actual product vendor if it increases sales. They have enough cash on hand that it hurts them none to receive most of the payment in the future.

Re: Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

#48

Post by xyst »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #2

“ The regulator also said Apple and Goldman misled many consumers into believing they would automatically get interest-free monthly payments when buying Apple devices. Instead, those same customers were charged interest.” Interesting! Will they notify those charged interest?

Probably payment on GS backend was processed late even if customer initiated payment on the due date. So customer was charged interest.

I was an early adopter of the AC during my Apple glazing days. Everybody has the same due date (end of month) and GS systems just could not handle the volume.

I remember an auto payment taking a week to withdraw from my bank account and applied to account. I wasn’t charged interest and didn’t have an installment at the time though. I believe installments were introduced a year later after AC was generally available.

Re: Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

#49

Post by jwells89 »

_mlbt wrote: post #31
talldayo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying "good job Apple" in the context of payment processing deals is like cheering on a slightly more buff gladiator bashing in the face of his opponent. Both of them intend to fleece the users, they just disagree over who gets priority access. I'm not saying you can't have a favorite gladiator, I'm saying you can't pretend this isn't pugilism.

My Apple Card gives me an entire month to pay off the balance, and I am actively encouraged to keep paying it off throughout the month. The cash back rewards are simple and quickly paid out. There are no late fees. The UI for the software side of it is exceptional. It is by far my favorite credit card.

It's also nice that the cash back is actually cash which can be automatically directed into the accompanying savings account, where it accrues 4.10% APY interest. None of the usual funny business with points with shifting valuations, restrictions on how they can be spent, etc.

Re: Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

#50

Post by xyst »

xp84 wrote: post #18

The article says they're banned from launching any more credit cards unless they can 'demonstrate they are going to follow the law' (whatever that means). This is really funny, because Goldman has been very public about how much they hate the Apple Card deal, and they have been and still are looking to unwind the deal or sell the portfolio, so something tells me this experiment in retail consumer finance is not somet…

Goldman has been winding down consumer bank operations for awhile. Checking/savings account division (Marcus?) was sold off or dissolved
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