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Welcome to the Era of the $20k Family Car Insurance Bill

nytimes.com

101–110 of 116 posts

Re: Welcome to the Era of the $20k Family Car Insurance Bill

#101
post #74
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personal automobiles are suboptimal in every measurable metric aside from your subjective "but I like owning a car" opinion.

Life being "optimal" does not make it worth living as if we're all cogs in a machine. Liberty makes life worth living, and liberty is very expensive.

Cars aren't a liberty, merely an illusion of it. Cars are the reason you can't go anywhere you want to go without paying for a hunk of steel and risking your life. True liberty would be being able to walk everywhere you need to go, but this is rare.

Re: Welcome to the Era of the $20k Family Car Insurance Bill

#102
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving is hideously inefficient. It should be the most expensive option, because taking a 2-ton machine with you everywhere you go should be considered a luxury.

Not everyone lives in cities, not everyone can afford to live in cities, not everyone lives in areas well connected by public transportation and not everyone can afford to live in areas well connected by public transportation.

The reason those are all so expensive is because the money is being burned on less efficient transport, i.e. cars. Transporting the same amount of people via car requires A LOT more money, due to the nature of motor vehicles.

Re: Welcome to the Era of the $20k Family Car Insurance Bill

#103
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life being "optimal" does not make it worth living as if we're all cogs in a machine. Liberty makes life worth living, and liberty is very expensive.

Cars aren't a liberty, merely an illusion of it. Cars are the reason you can't go anywhere you want to go without paying for a hunk of steel and risking your life. True liberty would be being able to walk everywhere you need to go, but this is rare.

> risking your life.

Hence my point; liberty is expensive. Liberty includes the liberty to risk it. There's no illusion. Cars do not rule me. They're not binding, or addictive. They're a tool that physically extend my liberty to go where I please, and I can use them or leave them as I please.

Re: Welcome to the Era of the $20k Family Car Insurance Bill

#104
More and more, I feel like insurance has become a scam. The original idea was that of pooling risk. Now, it's as much of a daylight robbery as it can get. Premiums have shot up up. You can only make a claim at most once in your lifetime. Once past that, forget getting insurance anymore (at a reasonable premium, that is). Insurance is practically a zero-loss business [citation needed].

Re: Welcome to the Era of the $20k Family Car Insurance Bill

#105
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars aren't a liberty, merely an illusion of it. Cars are the reason you can't go anywhere you want to go without paying for a hunk of steel and risking your life. True liberty would be being able to walk everywhere you need to go, but this is rare.

> risking your life. Hence my point; liberty is expensive. Liberty includes the liberty to risk it. There's no illusion. Cars do not rule me. They're not binding, or addictive. They're a tool that physically extend my liberty to go where I please, and I can use them or leave them as I please.

> Cars do not rule me

They do, that's what you're missing. They're both binding and addictive, because we have to build our entire society to revolve around them. You've lost countless liberties, as have many Americans, due to the concessions around cars.

The reason your grocery store is 5 miles away is because of cars. The reason you can't have a job without a car is because of cars. The reason you don't have a right to reasonable noise is because of cars. The reason you don't have a right to not inhale tire fumes is because of cars.

Cars have taken away your ability to do a lot of things. And no, you cannot "leave them" as you please, you are required to keep one otherwise you will most likely not have a job. Go ahead, try this out. Get rid of your car for one year, without moving, and come back.

Re: Welcome to the Era of the $20k Family Car Insurance Bill

#106
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> risking your life. Hence my point; liberty is expensive. Liberty includes the liberty to risk it. There's no illusion. Cars do not rule me. They're not binding, or addictive. They're a tool that physically extend my liberty to go where I please, and I can use them or leave them as I please.

> Cars do not rule me They do, that's what you're missing. They're both binding and addictive, because we have to build our entire society to revolve around them. You've lost countless liberties, as have many Americans, due to the concessions around cars. The reason your grocery store is 5 miles away is because of cars. The reason you can't have a job without a car is because of cars. The reason you don't have a righ…

> The reason your grocery store is 5 miles away is because of cars.

You're suggesting everyone just move to a city, or what? Because we can't just litter a grocery store every mile across the entire American continent. We know that cars are neither binding nor addictive because people regularly move to cities and sell their only car with little difficulty. The car increases my liberty, my choice to not live in a city. Have you ever actually lived outside of a city?

The way you're looking at it is upside-down. The car doesn't push opportunities away as if ridding ourselves of cars would magically make everything close, no, it increases my reach. We know this because of historical evidence. Before the car, going to town was an all-day affair in the horse drawn carriage. Now it's a 30 minute trip. Freeing up my day to do whatever else I choose to do.

Maybe you're suggesting that if we didn't have the car, there would be train tracks within walking distance everywhere? I love trains. Rather than trying to kill cars, why not attempt to build better rail infrastructure? Then I could join you.

Re: Welcome to the Era of the $20k Family Car Insurance Bill

#107
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are European countries that forbid car ownership?

No one in this thread is advocating forbidding car ownership.

The original comment I responded to does, which is why I called it an astonishing statement.

Re: Welcome to the Era of the $20k Family Car Insurance Bill

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you proposing ridesharing? Self-driving hasn't been widely deployed yet.

... no? Are we so car-brained that the options are "my car" or "somebody else's car"?

"Transport to where-ever you need to go, an what-ever time you need to go there" has to functionally be pretty car-like. My question is how he wants to dispatch it on demand so it doesn't need to stay parked near us.

Re: Welcome to the Era of the $20k Family Car Insurance Bill

#109
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cars do not rule me They do, that's what you're missing. They're both binding and addictive, because we have to build our entire society to revolve around them. You've lost countless liberties, as have many Americans, due to the concessions around cars. The reason your grocery store is 5 miles away is because of cars. The reason you can't have a job without a car is because of cars. The reason you don't have a righ…

> The reason your grocery store is 5 miles away is because of cars. You're suggesting everyone just move to a city, or what? Because we can't just litter a grocery store every mile across the entire American continent. We know that cars are neither binding nor addictive because people regularly move to cities and sell their only car with little difficulty. The car increases my liberty, my choice to not live in a city…

> We know that cars are neither binding nor addictive because people regularly move to cities and sell their only car with little difficulty

Little difficulty? Is this a joke or do we have different definitions of difficulty?

There're hardly any cities in the US with adequate transportation, number 1. I live in a city; you probably do to. You REQUIRE your car, as do 99.9999% of all cities in the US. Some don't, like NYC - but even there you're pushing it. It's not London.

> as if ridding ourselves of cars would magically make everything close

That's exactly what it does, because everything is far because of the car. It's urban sprawl. We don't have more "stuff", rather we waste the majority of our spaces on infrastructure for cars. Roads, parking, etc.

> Before the car, going to town was an all-day affair in the horse drawn carriage

That's just not true. People live in the town, that's why it's a town. Are you a farmer or something? No, you live in an urban area. You're IN the town, your town is just car centric and therefore it sucks ass to navigate.

> Rather than trying to kill cars, why not attempt to build better rail infrastructure

Sigh... okay:

1. Nobody on Earth is trying to kill cars, including me.

2. The reason rail is bad and isn't getting better is BECAUSE of cars and car-centric infrastructure. We spend hundreds of billions of dollars on car infrastructure. That's money not going to public transportation, despite being public funds. If we divert even a fraction of that money, we can have a huge impact. But there's blockers, people like you. In addition, to make rail effective you have to not waste miles and miles of space on urban sprawl. But people love their automobiles and 2 hour commutes.

Re: Welcome to the Era of the $20k Family Car Insurance Bill

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... no? Are we so car-brained that the options are "my car" or "somebody else's car"?

"Transport to where-ever you need to go, an what-ever time you need to go there" has to functionally be pretty car-like. My question is how he wants to dispatch it on demand so it doesn't need to stay parked near us.

Buses and trams do that as well, or at least extremely close to it. If the next bus is in a minute, and it's going to the block you're going to, guess what - you can go where you want, whatever time you want.

This is the case in many areas. When I was in Romania, between buses, trams, and rail I could go wherever I wanted, whenever I wanted. There was always an option available, typically multiple overlapping options. Keep in mind this is a poor eastern European country.

Keep in mind it's also fast, like very fast. Going across the city was a 10-minute affair. Try driving across a big city like Dallas.

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