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Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

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Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#901

Post by mr_toad »

E_Bfx wrote: post #354
renegade-otter wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AI is here to stay Let's not assume a lot right now. OpenAI and other companies are torching through cash like drunken socialist sailors. Will AI be here as a Big Data 2.0 B2B technology? Most likely, but a viable model where students and laypeople have access to it? To be seen. We all mooched off of dumb VC money at one point or another. I acquired a few expensive watches at Fab dot com at 80% off when they were g…

> drunken socialist sailors Sorry, English is not my first langage what is this expression ? Why does the sailor as to be socialist ? Google didn't help me with this one.

Sailors from certain former socialist states have a reputation for drunkenness that goes beyond the normally high levels of drunkenness of other sailors.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#902

Post by nostrademons »

ericjmorey wrote: post #566
nostrademons wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution, clearly, is a world where those who actually learned the math can use it to cheat the people who didn't. ...which is what we have today, where the most lucrative industries for people with good math skills are finance (= cheating dumb people out of their retirement), advertising (= cheating dumb people out of their consumer dollars), and data-driven propaganda (= cheating dumb people out of their votes)…

Math has little to nothing to do with how people are cheated in those fields.

Math lets you do it reliably at scale. The basic principles of how to cheat people have way more to do with psychology and information asymmetry than math. But math lets you process orders of magnitude more data so that you have more information and better models of peoples' psychology than they do themselves.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#903

Post by nostrademons »

eropple wrote: post #561
nostrademons wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution, clearly, is a world where those who actually learned the math can use it to cheat the people who didn't. ...which is what we have today, where the most lucrative industries for people with good math skills are finance (= cheating dumb people out of their retirement), advertising (= cheating dumb people out of their consumer dollars), and data-driven propaganda (= cheating dumb people out of their votes)…

> advertising (= cheating dumb people out of their consumer dollars) Advertising absolutely works on you regardless of how smart or educated you are. How it has to work to do that can change, but the idea that advertising only impacts dumb people is pernicious as shit.

I don't disagree, but was more referring to the swindler side than the rube, and compared to a good ML model we are all dumb.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#904

Post by Panzer04 »

clarebear123 wrote: post #767
withinboredom wrote: post #762

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(older) ARM (aka, big-endian) it will be 01

I just ran it on my M2 mac and got 04. Don't compilers typically take endianness into account for things like this anyway?

Why would it do that? You're asking for a raw memory address value.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#905

Post by School-Cotton »

marci wrote: post #897
School-Cotton wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you suggest we reduce the prevalence of guns / improve gun control in the US? Keep in mind that the US is not a functioning democracy and its political system is structured to allow any side to block any substantial reform.

Are you answering your own question? I read your reply as : "How do we stop Z? X and Y are the cause of Z. The thing is, I said gun control, but I'm not even sure that's real issue. I kinda took it backward. There are mass shootings because of the ease of access to guns, but it's not the ease of access to guns that pushes people to this. In other ords, remove the guns, the mechanisms that drive people to think they w…

Gun control can’t be implemented in the US because the political system makes it impossible to do so. I don’t know any way to change this.

As for the problems that would persist even if we could ban guns: I don’t know how to fix those, either.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#906

Post by luxuryballs »

internetter wrote: post #775
luxuryballs wrote: post #629

Literally just hand write everything.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/14kmx...

The irony of kids wanting to be replaced by machines while they should be learning how not to be.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#907

Post by strogonoff »

injidup wrote: post #661
strogonoff wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My evaluation: 1. Whoever determined that he does not “deserve” this is wrong. There may be other constraints, but no one gets to frame it as “deserves” when a child wants to learn something. 2. If a teacher is unable to teach Johnny to write a for loop, despite Johnny’s genuine utmost motivation , I would question teacher’s competence or at least fit. 3. Like any mentor, a professor in higher ed may want to choose w…

It's funny. You have created yourself a paradox. Replace comp sci with being a teacher. You have made the claim now that teachers can be incompetent but Johnny cannot be. Let's say Johnny wants to become a teacher and puts in lots of effort but just cannot teach. Now he is an incompetent teacher but at what point did he go from being judged on effort to being judged on ability? When he wanted to be a teacher and got…

The paradox is only in your head. Do not confuse the process of learning a skill and practicing it professionally. The line between the two is beyond clear.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#908

Post by strogonoff »

ndriscoll wrote: post #503
strogonoff wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In regular life we are all judged by others based on results, of course. When learning, however, you are best judged on effort. > Some kids are going to learn more quickly than others, and for them, no effort will be required. If no effort is required, then the bar is wrong.

As long as we don't have the resources to devote 10+% of the workforce to teaching, the bar will be wrong. The bar was wrong for me during school and university, and I found teachers who gave high weights to homework or even attendance quizzes to be extremely obnoxious. On setting up expectations for adulhood, I think this is exactly backwards: > If you got good grades at school with little actual effort and the cons…

Yes, this is a failure some or all school systems suffer from today, as I pointed out in my comment.

> My personal experience has been that the "good grades/rewards without effort" thing has continued and seems pretty likely to continue through adulthood as long as you go into some kind of engineering.

Based on my observation, people who are comfortable doing the work in engineering achieve completely different heights than people who got used to coasting. As applied ML spreads across industries, the difference between the competitiveness of those two categories will only become more pronounced. Furthermore, from my observation those who got used to coasting suffer from issues like perfectionism, narcissism, rejection aversion, and similar.

Sooner or later in adulthood not doing the work stops achieving results deserving praise.

> Praising a child for effort without results seems way more likely to set them up for a surprisingly bad time as an adult.

Not “without results”. Results are critical. However, if results do not comply with whatever requirements, that is not a factor in whether to reward, unless you reward compliance. Rewarding compliance has to happen to some degree, but should not be overdone unless your goal is to foster uncreative cogs.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#909

Post by injidup »

strogonoff wrote: post #907
injidup wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny. You have created yourself a paradox. Replace comp sci with being a teacher. You have made the claim now that teachers can be incompetent but Johnny cannot be. Let's say Johnny wants to become a teacher and puts in lots of effort but just cannot teach. Now he is an incompetent teacher but at what point did he go from being judged on effort to being judged on ability? When he wanted to be a teacher and got…

The paradox is only in your head. Do not confuse the process of learning a skill and practicing it professionally. The line between the two is beyond clear.

The question you refuse to answer is at what point should incompetencey be judged over effort. Little timmy who was always going to be a good teacher has now lost out because you the gave the position for the university place to little Johhny who everyone, despite all his everyone knew he was going to be a terrible teacher.

There is no benefit in always being praised for your efforts if you cannot deliver the goods.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#910

Post by koliber »

I am interviewing Java candidates. People were submitting ai generated written screens and I had enough. I modified my written screen in a way that allows me to catch some ai generated content.

When it flags it, it’s 100% correct. There are no false positives. It’s still possible to have false negatives.

Btw if anyone is recruiting and interested in such a tool, contact me. Details in profile.

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