The crackdown and massive amount of money spent student AI cheating is a real joke. One of the last UK university courses I took was including a full week of mandatory course about plagiarism with hours of useless videos explaining that using grammarly was considered plagiarism. Guess what ? The main plagiarized content I encountered were the lecturers slides, clearly plagiarizing from other professor slides, themselves having plagiarized other slides etc. No, this is not universal knowledge sharing etc. This was just blatant copy paste. These guys should clearly clean their own house before pinpointing students who will use AI anyway. They should check if students are capable of producing an original piece of work based on acquired knowledge and not test their capacity to spit that knowledge like a parrot.
Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations
851–860 of 1001 posts
Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations
#852Earlier quoted context omitted.
Written assay evaluation is not and has never been an effective evaluation. It was always a cost saving measure because allocating 30min face to face time with each individual student for each class is such a gigantic cost for the institution that they cannot even imagine doing it. Think about that the next time you look at your student debt, it couldn’t even buy you 30min time per class individually with the teacher…
Well, that's not necessarily true. I was perhaps the most importunate student ever, and lingered around my professor's offices whenever they were open. I had endless questions, off topic and on. I was curious sure, but I was also annoying and pushy and wouldn't take no for an answer. In fact, the only reason I use the word 'importunate' to describe myself, is because that's what my undergrad advisor called me. So I a…
TIL a new word.
Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations
#853Earlier quoted context omitted.
I said one conversation per student per class, and ten classes per year. Not 10 conversations per class per student. > The costs would be astronomical. Those 200 students have paid the college $549,600 for your class. The costs are already astronomical. Is it so unreasonable for some of that money to be spent on providing education?
I can't express how out of touch with reality this reply is. The students paid me nothing. The university provides some TAs, that's it. But even if they gave me all of that money in cash to spend, this would be totally impossible. I'm supposed to grade a student based on 1 conversation? Do you know how grading and teaching work? Can you imagine the complains that would come out of this process? How unfair it is to sa…
OK, so how is it that USSR made this work?
Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations
#854Earlier quoted context omitted.
It even came with handwriting built in as authentication mechanism! AI detectors hate this secret! On a more serious note - US removed cursive from their curriculum almost two decades ago - something i cant wrap my head around as cursive is something the rest of the world(?) uses starting in middle school and onwards through the whole adult life.
Sorry but nobody uses "cursive" writing. People barely write once they leave education - they type. When they do write it's legible separate characters or it's unreadable scrawl.
Aren’t you still required to write out a statement in cursive when you take the SAT?
Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations
#855Earlier quoted context omitted.
In a weird paradox, students who believe the lie and actually study to learn the material get more value from their education.
> get more value If actually learning is valuable to them, independent of whether it will actually help them with prospective employers, then yes. But I don't think we can assume that all students value that.
I’m thinking about the long term here. I don’t care about grades, I think they’re a poor signal. What I care about is whether the engineer I’m working with fifteen years and four employers later actually learned the fundamentals. Some did, some didn’t, and I can tell the difference.
Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations
#856I’ve been teaching in higher education for 30 years and am soon retiring. I teach math. In every math course there is massive amounts of cheating on everything that is graded that is not proctored in a classroom setting. Locking down browsers and whatnot does not prevent cheating. The only solution is to require face-to-face proctored exams and not allow students to use technology of any kind while taking the test. B…
I remember when (almost 25 years ago now) I did first year computer science, you had to hand in your code for an assignment, and then you had to sit with a tutor and answer questions about what it did, how it worked, and why you'd written it the way you did. Cheaters could get someone else to write their code for them but they did very poorly on the oral part.
Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations
#857I’ve been teaching in higher education for 30 years and am soon retiring. I teach math. In every math course there is massive amounts of cheating on everything that is graded that is not proctored in a classroom setting. Locking down browsers and whatnot does not prevent cheating. The only solution is to require face-to-face proctored exams and not allow students to use technology of any kind while taking the test. B…
My personal take, we’ve made the cost of failure to high and cheating too easy. As a student, the only thing the next institution will see is GPA, school, major. Roughly in that order. If the cost of not getting an A is exclusion from future opportunities- then students will reject exclusion by taking easier classes or cheating. As someone who studied physics and came out with a 2.7 GPA due to studying what I wanted…
In some cases, easier classes aren't a bad thing.
I had a decent GPA and took reasonably hard classes. I had a required discrete math class that was awful. The professor would assign homework for the next chapter that we hadn't gone over yet and them grade it as if it were a test. WTF am I paying you to teach me if I have to learn it myself before you ever present it and test me on that? Assign reading beforehand - great. Assign upgraded, or completion-graded homework beforehand - great. Grad it like a test before teaching it - BS. I took it with another professor after dropping the first one and they had more normal practices and it went much better.
Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations
#858Earlier quoted context omitted.
Simple: you still write an essay and you may use ai to do so. Then you throw the essay out and go and talk with the teacher about it. If you can answer intelligently it’s because you know the stuff and if not then you don’t.
It's simple, just hire 4x as many teachers so they can spend time talking to and quizzing students!
Such an increase can actually be quite feasible; quadrupling the labor spent on final examination would be perhaps a 10% increase for the total labor spent on preparing and teaching a university course, and at university level (unlike earlier schooling) we don't really have a shortage of educators, quite the opposite.
Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations
#859What if they got students, at the start of the semester, to write a few non graded essays under strict supervision, then use this as a guide on their natural writing style?
Then, if some assignment has a different writing style, not only could that potentially detect more simple uses of AI, but it might detect the old trick of getting their friend to give them a copy of last year's assignment and passing off that work as theirs, since their friends writing style would be different.
Of course, if the student is smart enough to train the AI on their own writing style, this might not work so well.
But it might help get a guide for people who naturally write in a way that will get flagged by these tools, such as Neurodivergent people and hopefully prevent them from being falsely accused, since it would already be known from the start that this is their natural writing style.
Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations
#860Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07856-5 LLMs already discriminates against African-American English. You could argue a human grader would as well, but all tested models were more consistent in assigning negative adjectives to hypothetical speakers of that dialect.
This is entirely unsurprising to me. As taught to me, written English (in the US) has a much stricter structure and vocabulary. African-American English was used as the primary example of incorrect and unprofessional writing.
I think that it’s a little more complicated than that as the comment from Brad Daniels at this link would show - https://www.takeourword.com/TOW145/page4.html
NB: I am not African-American, nor did I grew up on an African-American community, and I performed very well on all sorts of verbal tests. Yet, even I made the all intensive purposes mistake until well into adulthood. Probably a Midwestern thing.