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Welcome to the Era of the $20k Family Car Insurance Bill

nytimes.com

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Re: Welcome to the Era of the $20k Family Car Insurance Bill

#71

Post by scottLobster »

PreInternet01 wrote: post #42
scottLobster wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, so you're in favor of playing Sim-City with the infinite money cheat codes. Cool. Because if you were suggesting that in the real world then, at least in America, you're suggesting a complete overhaul of almost all transportation infrastructure and saying that no average person will have to spend an extra dollar to pay for it somehow. Is Mexico paying for it or something?

You're projecting harder than the average IMAX venue. Even in many parts of America (which are not that different from many parts of, say, France, which I'm very familiar with, thankyouverymuch), private car ownership is not an absolute requirement. Can people there get around with Public Transport ? Nope. Do they require their Own Private Sardine Can At All Times ? No, not necessarily either. And I'm firmly in the "…

You have no solutions, you have fantasies about turning America into a false vision of France apparently.

I've been to France as well, outside of major cities. Perhaps not as well traveled as you, but I remember seeing plenty of private cars in driveways and on roads as we passed by various dwellings. I doubt they'd take kindly to your suggestion either. Weren't there riots over the price of gasoline not that long ago?

Whatever, be a flat-earther of transportation policy if you wish. You clearly aren't serious.

Re: Welcome to the Era of the $20k Family Car Insurance Bill

#72

Post by erik_seaberg »

RIMR wrote: post #31
scottLobster wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, as one of the vast majority of Americans who live in a car-dependent area and aren't made of money, have fun trying to force that on everyone. Also "suboptimal" is a matter of opinion.

Personal automobiles are suboptimal in every measurable metric aside from your subjective "but I like owning a car" opinion.

Cars run point to point on demand, which is optimal. Any system that does not will waste huge chunks of riders' time.

Re: Welcome to the Era of the $20k Family Car Insurance Bill

#73

Post by xnx »

reaperducer wrote: post #51
toomuchtodo wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Automakers charge what the be auto market can support. They can limit supply to keep prices high. Used car market is limited by new car market sales. Structural demographics means there are less workers every year (auto repair labor costs). Costs are unlikely to decline.

Used car market is limited by new car market sales. I think the used car market might be crazy right now. When COVID hit and everyone was clamoring for used cars because new cars couldn't be made/imported, I took my wife's low-end car to CarMax for an appraisal. It was a fair offer, but I didn't bite. All these years, and 25,000 miles later, I brought the same car back to CarMax a couple of weeks ago, and the apprais…

Used car prices are dropping, but still very elevated from pre-pandemic: https://site.manheim.com/en/services/consulting/used-vehicle...

Re: Welcome to the Era of the $20k Family Car Insurance Bill

#74

Post by brink »

RIMR wrote: post #31
scottLobster wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, as one of the vast majority of Americans who live in a car-dependent area and aren't made of money, have fun trying to force that on everyone. Also "suboptimal" is a matter of opinion.

Personal automobiles are suboptimal in every measurable metric aside from your subjective "but I like owning a car" opinion.

Life being "optimal" does not make it worth living as if we're all cogs in a machine. Liberty makes life worth living, and liberty is very expensive.

Re: Welcome to the Era of the $20k Family Car Insurance Bill

#75

Post by mtalantikite »

neilalexander wrote: post #45
RIMR wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving is hideously inefficient. It should be the most expensive option, because taking a 2-ton machine with you everywhere you go should be considered a luxury.

Not everyone lives in cities, not everyone can afford to live in cities, not everyone lives in areas well connected by public transportation and not everyone can afford to live in areas well connected by public transportation.

But all of these were policy choices over the past decades. We very much could have invested in public transit and built housing, but instead we decided most humans should have a car to go about daily life. Which, if we're optimizing for sending money to car, oil, and healthcare companies, I guess is a good strategy.

Re: Welcome to the Era of the $20k Family Car Insurance Bill

#76

Post by PreInternet01 »

scottLobster wrote: post #66
RIMR wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personal automobiles are suboptimal in every measurable metric aside from your subjective "but I like owning a car" opinion.

If you confiscated my car tomorrow, I literally couldn't get to work or buy groceries. That isn't an optimization, it's a hard reality. Once you've built timely safe replacement infrastructure that can carry me from my home to my place of employment as fast or faster than my current commute, and take me to any of the shops I frequent, and do that for all of my neighbors, and do all of the above in a way that costs le…

Hey, I'm the guy who is 100% against private car ownership, and I don't want to "confiscate your car" (I mean, what would I do with that?) or encourage anyone to do so (unless, of course, they're the bank and you're a delinquent, don't want to upset the apple cart too much...).

I want you to be able to reliably get transport to where-ever you need to go, an what-ever time you need to go there, without the need to keep a 1000-pound pile of junk in (semi-)public spaces at all times.

Where I live, that's pretty much a possibility already. I want everyone to have that same freedom!

Re: Welcome to the Era of the $20k Family Car Insurance Bill

#77

Post by mtalantikite »

thayne wrote: post #62
toomuchtodo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disincentives a suboptimal transportation option. Price signals are important, just like making it expensive to own property where the risk is too high. Automotive ownership and transportation is likely to never be as inexpensive as it previously was. You will either need to pay the cost or live somewhere you don’t need a car.

It doesn't really matter if you disincentivise it if there isn't an alternative, or the alternatives are even worse, as is currently the case in many parts of the US.

Does that not incentivize fixing the problem, which would be to build public transit and housing?

Re: Welcome to the Era of the $20k Family Car Insurance Bill

#78

Post by Xymist »

scottLobster wrote: post #66
RIMR wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personal automobiles are suboptimal in every measurable metric aside from your subjective "but I like owning a car" opinion.

If you confiscated my car tomorrow, I literally couldn't get to work or buy groceries. That isn't an optimization, it's a hard reality. Once you've built timely safe replacement infrastructure that can carry me from my home to my place of employment as fast or faster than my current commute, and take me to any of the shops I frequent, and do that for all of my neighbors, and do all of the above in a way that costs le…

It also needs to be able to do this _literally door to door_ and without having to sit next to, speak to, or touch anyone I don't know.

Cars are a privacy bubble and a shield, not just a transport mechanism; no form of mass transit will ever be an acceptable substitute in the way that, for me, is the most important factor.

Re: Welcome to the Era of the $20k Family Car Insurance Bill

#79

Post by FooBarBizBazz »

PreInternet01 wrote: post #20
baggy_trough wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds terrible, why would you be against that?

'cause privately-owned cars are a significant contributor to mortality, and take up, like, 99% more space than is warranted? I mean, everyone (well mostly everyone) is absolutely mortified by commercial aviation, which, like, commits literally 0.01% of those sins on a global scale?

"Mortified" means "extremely embarrassed". You seem to mean "terrified".

Re: Welcome to the Era of the $20k Family Car Insurance Bill

#80

Post by [deleted] »

mtalantikite wrote: post #77
thayne wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't really matter if you disincentivise it if there isn't an alternative, or the alternatives are even worse, as is currently the case in many parts of the US.

Does that not incentivize fixing the problem, which would be to build public transit and housing?

[deleted]
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