Earlier quoted context omitted.
Clearly the answer is airport grade security at schools and militarizing police, instead of fixing the root causes.
Nobody knows how to fix the root causes.
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Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations
441–450 of 1001 posts
Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations
#442It is no longer effective to solely use a written essay to measure how deeply a student comprehends a subject. AI is here to stay; new methods should be used to assess student performance. I remember being told at school, that we weren't allowed to use calculators in exams. The line provided by teachers was that we could never rely on having a calculator when we need it most—obviously there's irony associated with ha…
>AI is here to stay; new methods should be used to assess student performance. Here is the brand new method - asking verbal questions in person and evaluating answers. Also allow high tech aides in the form of chalk and blackboard
The downside of downgrading technology like this is that tests and skills become less relevant to the real world.
For all their problems, 5000 word take home assignments in Microsoft Office have a lot in common with the activities of a junior management consultant, NGO writer, lawyer or business analyst. And same with for scientists but with Latex.
I’d rather hire a lawyer who could only do their job with AI than one who couldn’t use a computer to create documents or use digital tools to search case law.
Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations
#443Earlier quoted context omitted.
Simple: you still write an essay and you may use ai to do so. Then you throw the essay out and go and talk with the teacher about it. If you can answer intelligently it’s because you know the stuff and if not then you don’t.
It's simple, just hire 4x as many teachers so they can spend time talking to and quizzing students!
Yes, it is simple. This already happens for AP exam grading, for example. Seasonal temporary graders.
Happens in tax filing too.
Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations
#444Earlier quoted context omitted.
The best method for assessing performance when learning is as old as the world: assess the effort, not how well the result complies with some requirements. If the level of effort made is high, but the outcome does not comply in some way, praise is due. If the outcome complies, but the level of effort is low, there is no reason for praise (what are you praising? mere compliance?) and you must have set a wrong bar. Not…
I've found that in adulthood, I've still been judged on results, not effort, and unless we're going to drastically reduce student:teacher ratios, I don't see how you even could judge on effort. Some kids are going to learn more quickly than others, and for them, no effort will be required. At best you might assign them busywork, but that doesn't take effort just as it wouldn't take effort for an adult to do the work.
In regular life we are all judged by others based on results, of course. When learning, however, you are best judged on effort.
> Some kids are going to learn more quickly than others, and for them, no effort will be required.
If no effort is required, then the bar is wrong.
Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations
#445Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations
#446Well, that's ONE problem. "The Elite College Students Who Can’t Read Books" https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/11/the-eli...
Over past 5 years or so, the word "read" was redefined to mean "listened to", and "book" to mean "audiobook".
"I read Hamilton this month," means heard the audiobook while commuting in the car or on the train.
So now they can all read books again.
Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations
#447Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just because a method of assessment became easily spoofable doesn't mean we should give up on it. Imagine if in the era before HTTPS we just said that the internet won't be really viable because it's impossible to communicate securely on it. I still feel like AI detectors would work well if we have access to the exact model, output probabilities of tokens, We can just take a bit of given text, and calculate the cumul…
Probability is not an acceptable way to determine a student's future. They may have learned from the AI and remember some of the exact phrasing, and learned writing/language cues from it as well.
Agreed. I'm not a good writer, tending to stick to a somewhat abrupt, point-making structure almost better suited for bullet pointing. I've taken tips from other HN users on how to improve, but I have no doubt that had I been going through university these days, I'd probably be flagged too.
Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations
#448Earlier quoted context omitted.
In most cases that only tests a students memory and handwriting ability, while under pressure in a limited time. Can't perform any research, compare conflicting sources, or self-reflection.
That depends on the questions. There are also open book exams. A viva is a type of exam so I don’t see they are incompatible with assessing research
Not every class is STEM. Are you writing a 4000 word research paper sitting in class?
Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations
#449Earlier quoted context omitted.
IMHO. With calculators introduced, there is zero add in you learning long division. Worse than zero, you could have done something better with your time. ChatGPT is a calculator for all subjects. People have a hard time letting that sink in.
AI is a calculator for all subjects, ChatGPT is not that advanced.
I still bet someone like you could pass any university exam in any subject with access to the ChatGPT app. Without any prep time. At that point it’s good enough.
Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations
#450Earlier quoted context omitted.
When I studied physics at Exeter University they still used the tutorial system and finals. Tutorials were held fortnightly; the tutorial groups were typically three or four students. There was no obligation to turn up to lectures or even tutorials. You just had to pass the end of year exams to be allowed to continue to the final. The class of degree that was awarded depended on the open note final exam and the repor…
I agree. There are small question about bias (gender, race) etc in these oral systems, but I think they are resolvable and much better than written essays (which are now written by AI).
the teacher knows you either way so the bias would be there for the written exam as well