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Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

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Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#91

Are any students coming up with a process to prove their innocents when they get falsely accused? If I was still in school I would write my docs in a Google Doc which provides the edit history. I could potentially also record video of me typing the entire document as well or screen recording my screen.

I don't think there's any real way around the fundamental flaw of such systems assuming there's an accurate way to detect generated text, since even motivated cheaters could use their phone to generate the text and just iterate edits from there, using identical CYA techniques.

That said, I'd imagine if someone resorts to using generative text their edits would contain anomalies that someone legitimately writing wouldn't have in terms of building out the structure/drafts. Perhaps that in itself could be auto detected more reliably.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#92
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could see a student hollowing out the laptop and hiding a weapon inside to sneak it in if thats the case

That is beyond silly. Unless students go naked they can have a weapon in a pocket.

The point was that if the laptop is taken out and doesn’t go through the scanner, but the rest of the student has to go through the scanner, then the laptop is a great hiding place. Presumably that scanner can at least beep at a pocket knife.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#93
post #84
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some countries teaching is a highly respected profession. Switzerland and Finland comes to mind.

You can't eat respect.

In those places salary (and good public services) follows respect

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#94
We should have some sort of time constrained form of assessment in a controlled environment, free from access to machines, so we can put these students under some kind of thorough examination.

(“Thorough examination” as a term is too long though — let’s just call them “thors”.)

In seriousness the above only really applies at University level, where you have adults who are there with the intention to learn and then receive a final certification that they did indeed learn. Who cares if some of them cheat on their homework? They’ll fail their finals and more fool them.

With children though, there’s a much bigger responsibility on teachers to raise them as moral beings who will achieve their full potential. I can see why high schools get very anxious about raising kids to be something other than prompt engineers.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#96

My daughter’s 7th grade work is 80% flagged as AI. She is a very good writer, it’s interesting to see how poorly this will go. Obviously we will go back to in class writing.

I'd encourage you to examine the grading policies of the high schools in your area.

What may seem obvious based on earlier-era measures of student comprehension and success is not the case in many schools anymore.

Look up evidence based grading, equitable grading, test retake policies, etc.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#97
post #6

My daughter’s 7th grade work is 80% flagged as AI. She is a very good writer, it’s interesting to see how poorly this will go. Obviously we will go back to in class writing.

She should run it through ai to rewrite in a way so another ai doesn't detect it was written by ai.

I've heard some students are concerned that any text submitted to an AI-detector is automatically added to training sets and therefore will eventually will be flagged as AI.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#98
post #22

My kids’ school added a new weapons scanner as kids walk in the door. It’s powered by “AI.” They trust the AI quite a bit. However, the AI identifies the school issued Lenovo laptops as weapons. So every kid was flagged. Rather than stopping using such a stupid tool, they just have the kids remove their laptops before going through the scanner. I expect not smart enough people are buying “AI” products and trusting th…

Do you think it stupid to scan kids for weapons, or stupid to think that a metal detector will find weapons?

Not the OP, but obviously it wasn't a metal detector, otherwise it would've detected all brands of laptops as weapons. It's probably an image based detector.

The problem is, if it has been that badly tested that it detects Lenovo laptops as weapons, there is a good chance that it doesn't properly detect actual weapons either.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#99
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The education system in the US is broadly staffed by the dumbest people from every walk of life. If they could make it elsewhere, they would. I don’t expect this to be a popular take here, and most replies will be NAXALT fallacies, but in aggregate it’s the truth. Sorry, your retired CEO physics teacher who you loved was not a representative sample.

It's not just USA, it's pretty much universal, as much as I've seen it. People like to pretend like it's some sort of noble profession, but I vividly remember having a conversation with recently graduated ex-classmates, where one of them was complaining that she failed to pass at every department she applied to, so she has no other choice than to apply for department of education (I guess? I don't know what is the na…

Sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy. We educate everyone to be the smartest person in the class, and then we don't have jobs for them. And then we complain that education is not good enough. Shouldn't we conclude that education is already a bit too good?
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