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Energy-based model explains how chronic stress transforms into disease over time

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Re: Energy-based model explains how chronic stress transforms into disease over time

#41

Post by shagie »

cyberpunk wrote: post #25
fnordpiglet wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The body tends to use the same amount of energy regardless of what you do in a day. You can certainly over exercise which causes undue stress on the body. However other than an adaptive period at the start of regular exercise your body adapts to the increased caloric use from exercise by down regulating other processes to conserve energy. Typically an excess of calories is used by production of lipid fluid in adipose…

How did you come by this information and do you have any sources / further reading on this?

Kurzgesagt – In a Nutshell : We Need to Rethink Exercise (Updated Version) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSSkDos2hzo

Their videos have a section where they link the sources. In this case https://sites.google.com/view/sources-workoutparadox

Re: Energy-based model explains how chronic stress transforms into disease over time

#42

Post by vmasto »

tmshapland wrote: post #27

So what do you do about stress? How do you recognize it's happening? I found this part informative: "Stress reactivity occurs specifically in situations that diminish one’s control and where the prospect of being negatively evaluated, rejected, and/or shamed are contextually manipulated (Dickerson et al., 2004)." I find I get the most stressed when I'm excited about a new challenge -- a new work project, seeing a pat…

Stress most times doesn't reveal itself like that. What you're describing is short term excitement and perhaps anxiety.

Stress is a silent killer. It's basically being mostly unhappy, feeling unfulfilled and trapped. It's a spectrum that can range from simply being unhappy to being deeply depressed.

Re: Energy-based model explains how chronic stress transforms into disease over time

#43

Post by chiefalchemist »

diskevich wrote: post #40

Stress management isn't just about understanding the problem—it's about actionable solutions. Exercise, even a brief walk, reduces cortisol and boosts mood-enhancing endorphins. Meditation and mindfulness, once seen as trendy, are now scientifically proven to rewire the brain for better stress handling. Nutrition plays a surprising role; omega-3-rich foods like salmon can lower stress hormones. Quality sleep, especia…

Agree, with all in full sans the last one. Of course, if you're struggling, seek support.

We all have bad days or even bad weeks, life happens and often it's best to learn this. The current fad (?) of "I'm going to experess my non-positive feelings as they are all the time" gives too much weight to what are normal passing moments.

I don't want to say being a hypochondriac is normalized (else I might get canceled) but... Words, they create worlds. It's important to be mindful of what we choose to create.

Belief drives behavior, and when allowed to perpetuate the victim mentality can cause unnecessary (semi) permanent damage. It's perfectly normal to experience some pain. Don't make more of it than necessary.

Re: Energy-based model explains how chronic stress transforms into disease over time

#44

Post by chiefalchemist »

hammock wrote: post #32
hammock wrote: post #13

This paper reminds me of the “insight” / factoid that all mammals are basically born with the same rough number of heartbeats, and then they die. Smaller animals like mice have shorter lifespans and faster heartbeats. Larger ones like whales and elephants have slower heartbeats and longer lives. The humorous (and obviously false, though apparently not if this paper is out there) corollary is that any exercise and non…

Do the people downvoting my comment think I believe in this theory, or is there another reason? “Factoid” means untrue by definition. I thought it an interesting novelty

Down voting on HN on HN seems to be a sign of "this idea breaks the model I have in my head, and my biases tell me I can't be mistaken."

Re: Energy-based model explains how chronic stress transforms into disease over time

#45

Post by gregwebs »

Lets agree for the sake of argument that if the body does not have enough energy to do what it needs that causes harm. Then why not eat more food to deal with the problem?

I think this model is missing a critical component: the bodies ability to use energy effectively is limited by having the proper nutrients available. The easiest example being a deficiency of B vitamins since they are used for energy metabolism. Many other factors can impair energy metabolism and just eating more will not fix the situation.

Whereas with this model we have statements that seem too over-simplified:

> The organism’s energy consumption capacity is biologically limited

This seems overstated- we know that certain athletes can consume 2x or even 3x a resting amount to support physical exertion- the human body seems designed to be able to produce more power for physical exertion when needed by consuming more energy (in addition to making long-term adaptations to make energy usage more efficient).

I also think that readers of this paper may take away an understated understanding of the possible negative effects of energy deficiency. Any physiological problem could be impacted by energy metabolism. For example, even if something is known to be caused by a deficiency in a nutrient that cannot be synthesized by the body, it's still possible that improved energy metabolism might be able to reduce the usage of that nutrient in some pathways to conserve more for where it is needed.

Re: Energy-based model explains how chronic stress transforms into disease over time

#46

Post by t0bia_s »

gregwebs wrote: post #45

Lets agree for the sake of argument that if the body does not have enough energy to do what it needs that causes harm. Then why not eat more food to deal with the problem? I think this model is missing a critical component: the bodies ability to use energy effectively is limited by having the proper nutrients available. The easiest example being a deficiency of B vitamins since they are used for energy metabolism. Ma…

- the human body seems designed to be able to produce more power for physical exertion when needed by consuming more energy (in addition to making long-term adaptations to make energy usage more efficient).

Most top athletes are retiring around 35. Their bodies are ruined like those who need to physically work hardly every day. They look elder as well.

We are not machines that will do more when given more sources without consequences.

Re: Energy-based model explains how chronic stress transforms into disease over time

#47

Post by discordance »

azeirah wrote: post #39
jgneff wrote: post #16

I think this study is related to two books I read this summer: Burn , by Herman Pontzer, presents his "constrained energy expenditure hypothesis," and Exercised , by Daniel E. Lieberman, discusses his "costly repair hypothesis." Together, they try to explain why exercise can force your body to stop using its energy to destroy itself (inflammation, autoimmune diseases) and instead use its energy to restore itself (rel…

Kurtzgesagt had a video about this very recently too. About calory expenditure.

This one: https://youtu.be/vSSkDos2hzo

Re: Energy-based model explains how chronic stress transforms into disease over time

#48

Post by hammock »

mcoliver wrote: post #26
hammock wrote: post #13

This paper reminds me of the “insight” / factoid that all mammals are basically born with the same rough number of heartbeats, and then they die. Smaller animals like mice have shorter lifespans and faster heartbeats. Larger ones like whales and elephants have slower heartbeats and longer lives. The humorous (and obviously false, though apparently not if this paper is out there) corollary is that any exercise and non…

Haven't done the math but maybe they aren't so disconnected. If I can trade off an elevated heart rate of 170 for an hour every day or two in exchange for dropping my resting heartbeat from 70 to 50, I should end up with more years to use those finite heartbeats. As with most things in life it's about balance. Extremes and absolutes in most everything tend to result in poor outcomes. You don't want to be sitting 24/7…

Starting with 60 RHR:

+120 bpm for 60min = -7200 beats off your life -20 bpm for 23 hours = +27600 beats added to your life Net: +20400 beats, or 6.8 hrs added, every day you keep it up

Obviously some factors missing in that, you can't live forever.. but back of the envelope it nets positive not negative

Re: Energy-based model explains how chronic stress transforms into disease over time

#49

Post by gregwebs »

t0bia_s wrote: post #46
gregwebs wrote: post #45

Lets agree for the sake of argument that if the body does not have enough energy to do what it needs that causes harm. Then why not eat more food to deal with the problem? I think this model is missing a critical component: the bodies ability to use energy effectively is limited by having the proper nutrients available. The easiest example being a deficiency of B vitamins since they are used for energy metabolism. Ma…

- the human body seems designed to be able to produce more power for physical exertion when needed by consuming more energy (in addition to making long-term adaptations to make energy usage more efficient). Most top athletes are retiring around 35. Their bodies are ruined like those who need to physically work hardly every day. They look elder as well. We are not machines that will do more when given more sources wit…

Most athletes play for reasons other than health. In a competitive environment with physical contact that rewards over-exertion and playing through injuries. Those that keep pushing their body to their limit will likely find consequences. Just doing so many repetitive movements for sports will damage the body unless the athlete can train those pathways to be strong enough. Most athletes seem to play until they can't play through injury anymore.

In contrast, exercise that keeps good health in mind can require noticeable extra energy consumption and seems like it would fall in line with the huge volume of research showing the benefits of exercise.

In contrast this article seems to point to studies of increased resting metabolic rates being harmful with no evidence about exercise.

Re: Energy-based model explains how chronic stress transforms into disease over time

#50

Post by esperent »

t0bia_s wrote: post #46
gregwebs wrote: post #45

Lets agree for the sake of argument that if the body does not have enough energy to do what it needs that causes harm. Then why not eat more food to deal with the problem? I think this model is missing a critical component: the bodies ability to use energy effectively is limited by having the proper nutrients available. The easiest example being a deficiency of B vitamins since they are used for energy metabolism. Ma…

- the human body seems designed to be able to produce more power for physical exertion when needed by consuming more energy (in addition to making long-term adaptations to make energy usage more efficient). Most top athletes are retiring around 35. Their bodies are ruined like those who need to physically work hardly every day. They look elder as well. We are not machines that will do more when given more sources wit…

> ...retiring around 35. Their bodies are ruined

From what I can find, this is incorrect, unless the athlete is doing a high impact sport like American football, rugby, boxing etc.

If they're doing a non impact sport like swimming, cycling, running, they are likely to live longer and healthier than non athletes.

https://healthland.time.com/2012/12/14/fast-stronger-longer-...

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4534511/

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