Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Energy-based model explains how chronic stress transforms into disease over time

sciencedirect.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 60 posts

Re: Energy-based model explains how chronic stress transforms into disease over time

#31

Post by anon84873628 »

bloated5048 wrote: post #5
mattmaroon wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exercise seems to stimulate the mechanisms it’s claiming stress depresses, so probably no.

But exercise does use lots of energy. Probably more than stress.

I wouldn't be so sure. The brain is responsible for about 20% of resting metabolic rate, which translates to 300-350 calories per day for the average person.

300 calories is about the same as 30 minutes of zone 3 cardio (70-80% max heart rate, i.e. pretty high perceived exertion).

Most people in an exercise routine would only do that a couple times per week.

An "overactive" brain, day in day out, could add up to more than most people deliberately exercise.

Re: Energy-based model explains how chronic stress transforms into disease over time

#32

Post by hammock »

hammock wrote: post #13

This paper reminds me of the “insight” / factoid that all mammals are basically born with the same rough number of heartbeats, and then they die. Smaller animals like mice have shorter lifespans and faster heartbeats. Larger ones like whales and elephants have slower heartbeats and longer lives. The humorous (and obviously false, though apparently not if this paper is out there) corollary is that any exercise and non…

Do the people downvoting my comment think I believe in this theory, or is there another reason?

“Factoid” means untrue by definition. I thought it an interesting novelty

Re: Energy-based model explains how chronic stress transforms into disease over time

#33

Post by anon84873628 »

mattmaroon wrote: post #9
bloated5048 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But exercise does use lots of energy. Probably more than stress.

I don’t think the claim is that it just uses energy, it’s that it uses energy to the detriment of other processes. The body is extraordinarily complex, so I don’t think you can extrapolate that to anything else that uses energy. Any garden variety gym rat will tell you that when you worked out you eat a lot more. And that may be the same for stress, but perhaps what your body does with the energy when you exercise is…

Exercise modulates hunger (generally, cardio increases perceived hunger while resistance training actually blunts it for a time). But people putting in work at the gym are already in a health conscious mindset and will apply that to their food choices, even if they aren't on an explicit diet plan. If you just left a gallon of sweat on the treadmill you're probably not gonna buy a pizza or McDonald's burger in the way home. It just feels like an obvious step backwards in the moment.

Meanwhile, being in a stressed state that reduces executive function is going to lead people to the quick, easy, hyper palatable, high energy density, unhealthy food options available.

Re: Energy-based model explains how chronic stress transforms into disease over time

#34

Post by anon84873628 »

h4l wrote: post #23
mojosam wrote: post #12

it sounds like the authors are suggesting that additional energy usage caused by stress can, in isolation from other causes, be a mechanism for disease. But that doesn’t make much sense: - our metabolisms are adaptable, so why wouldn’t this increase in energy use simply be offset by an increase in energy production? It can’t be that people who are stressed in general aren’t getting enough energy, because that would c…

Humans have a massive capacity to vary energy use. Highly trained endurance athletes like professional road cyclists and triathletes can average 3x or more the typical daily energy expenditure of a non-athlete on a long term basis. The idea that psychological stress can overwhelm the body's ability to produce energy does not seem credible to me.

Those people have trained very deliberately over years to reach that level of performance, on top of an innate genetic disposition.

Undoubtedly, in absolute terms they have a higher capacity to withstand the negative physical effects of psychosocial stress as described in the paper, precisely because of these physiological adaptations.

If regular people trained themselves to deal with stress then they would have a higher capacity too.

The paper is referring to the maximum capacity of a particular organism at a particular moment in time. It doesn't assert that the capacity is uniform across a species or doesn't change over time.

Re: Energy-based model explains how chronic stress transforms into disease over time

#35

Post by anon84873628 »

mojosam wrote: post #12

it sounds like the authors are suggesting that additional energy usage caused by stress can, in isolation from other causes, be a mechanism for disease. But that doesn’t make much sense: - our metabolisms are adaptable, so why wouldn’t this increase in energy use simply be offset by an increase in energy production? It can’t be that people who are stressed in general aren’t getting enough energy, because that would c…

>Okay, so that means that no matter how stressed we get, there’s a cap to the energy we can use. But how is that relevant, since it also applies to exercise or other energy utilization by the body? Why does a limited capacity to consume energy only apply to stress?

It doesn't. That limited capacity to consume energy applies to exercise, brain activity, thermogenesis, digestion, and every other biological process as well. It is a fundamental aspect of cellular biology and a major focus in the field of exercise physiology.

Fitness training is the very slow and deliberate process of pushing these limits tiny percentages higher.

I suggest you build some practical and theoretical knowledge of the field before dismissing the paper.

Re: Energy-based model explains how chronic stress transforms into disease over time

#36

Post by krackers »

photochemsyn wrote: post #18

Link to full paper: https://www.picardlab.org/uploads/7/7/8/4/77845210/2022_bobb... Lots of interesting stuff about mitochondrial allostatic load. It's essentially a Goldilocks problem - the car that's never driven breaks down quickly when you take it out for a drive, but if you're constantly pushing the accelerator and slamming the brakes, the car's lifetime is cut in half. The paper seems to focus on social and psy…

Diseases like chronic fatigue syndrome are thought to be the result of mitochondrial dysfunction, right? Maybe that also fits in here.

Re: Energy-based model explains how chronic stress transforms into disease over time

#37

Post by [deleted] »

mcoliver wrote: post #26
hammock wrote: post #13

This paper reminds me of the “insight” / factoid that all mammals are basically born with the same rough number of heartbeats, and then they die. Smaller animals like mice have shorter lifespans and faster heartbeats. Larger ones like whales and elephants have slower heartbeats and longer lives. The humorous (and obviously false, though apparently not if this paper is out there) corollary is that any exercise and non…

Haven't done the math but maybe they aren't so disconnected. If I can trade off an elevated heart rate of 170 for an hour every day or two in exchange for dropping my resting heartbeat from 70 to 50, I should end up with more years to use those finite heartbeats. As with most things in life it's about balance. Extremes and absolutes in most everything tend to result in poor outcomes. You don't want to be sitting 24/7…

[deleted]

Re: Energy-based model explains how chronic stress transforms into disease over time

#38

Post by profmarshmellow »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #21
bloated5048 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But exercise does use lots of energy. Probably more than stress.

The body tends to use the same amount of energy regardless of what you do in a day. You can certainly over exercise which causes undue stress on the body. However other than an adaptive period at the start of regular exercise your body adapts to the increased caloric use from exercise by down regulating other processes to conserve energy. Typically an excess of calories is used by production of lipid fluid in adipose…

[dead]

Re: Energy-based model explains how chronic stress transforms into disease over time

#39

Post by azeirah »

jgneff wrote: post #16

I think this study is related to two books I read this summer: Burn , by Herman Pontzer, presents his "constrained energy expenditure hypothesis," and Exercised , by Daniel E. Lieberman, discusses his "costly repair hypothesis." Together, they try to explain why exercise can force your body to stop using its energy to destroy itself (inflammation, autoimmune diseases) and instead use its energy to restore itself (rel…

Kurtzgesagt had a video about this very recently too. About calory expenditure.

Re: Energy-based model explains how chronic stress transforms into disease over time

#40

Post by diskevich »

Stress management isn't just about understanding the problem—it's about actionable solutions.

Exercise, even a brief walk, reduces cortisol and boosts mood-enhancing endorphins.

Meditation and mindfulness, once seen as trendy, are now scientifically proven to rewire the brain for better stress handling.

Nutrition plays a surprising role; omega-3-rich foods like salmon can lower stress hormones.

Quality sleep, especially deep sleep, allows the brain to reset and repair.

Finally, don't underestimate the power of social support. Sharing your struggles with others can significantly lighten your mental load.

Post reply on HN