Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Svelte 5 Released

npmjs.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 254 posts

Re: Svelte 5 Released

#201

Post by incrudible »

dotancohen wrote: post #195
incrudible wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> vanilla HTML/CSS/JS ...but that's what Svelte is not . The techniques you adopt won't transfer over to vanilla HTML/CSS/JS without the magic Svelte compiler. These habits will become crutch when Svelte inevitably goes the way of every Javascript frontend framework. > something complex like React React is not that complex, certainly not more so than Svelte. It's hard to wrap your head around some behaviors, but at t…

> It's hard to wrap your head around some behaviors I've got a React maintenance and development project coming up in a few weeks. I'd love if you'd expand a bit on these points and maybe point to some relevant docs. You could potentially save me days or more of tail chasing. Thanks.

Primarily the rules of hooks and what does and does not trigger a render or a unmount. If your project still uses class instead of function components, that's a potential target for refactoring.

> some relevant docs

Read the docs. All of them. React isn't that big.

Re: Svelte 5 Released

#202

Post by rapind »

DecoySalamander wrote: post #188
incrudible wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> vanilla HTML/CSS/JS ...but that's what Svelte is not . The techniques you adopt won't transfer over to vanilla HTML/CSS/JS without the magic Svelte compiler. These habits will become crutch when Svelte inevitably goes the way of every Javascript frontend framework. > something complex like React React is not that complex, certainly not more so than Svelte. It's hard to wrap your head around some behaviors, but at t…

> As a programmer, I want to spend most of my time programming in a programming language If your work requires you to use a web stack, this attitude will not serve you well in the long run. If you make the effort to learn these technologies, you'll soon find them to be simple and predictable, but admittedly not without some historical baggage. You may even have an easier time with Svelte, since it has everything work…

Not sure about this. Most JS frameworks only last a few years before the next shiny is mass adopted. The churn in JS land is insane.

React is definitely one of the long beards though, and thats’s because declarative programming is a win for UIs IMO. So much so it had a massive knock on effect in popularizing this approach (what’s old is new again… and again) across languages and problem sets.

Re: Svelte 5 Released

#203

Post by ChocolateGod »

FractalHQ wrote: post #105
mhitza wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know of any large OSS software built with Svelte? I'd like to see how it turns out in the long run, because I'm reticent of all frontend frameworks nowadays through what I perceive as gateways to uncontrollable accidental complexity and abstractions.

Apple Music isn't OSS, but it's quite a large Svelte app: https://music.apple.com

I have no idea Apple was using Svelte, that's cool

Another notable example is Yahoo Finance, which is written in Svelte

https://finance.yahoo.com/

Re: Svelte 5 Released

#204

Post by dotancohen »

incrudible wrote: post #201
dotancohen wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's hard to wrap your head around some behaviors I've got a React maintenance and development project coming up in a few weeks. I'd love if you'd expand a bit on these points and maybe point to some relevant docs. You could potentially save me days or more of tail chasing. Thanks.

Primarily the rules of hooks and what does and does not trigger a render or a unmount. If your project still uses class instead of function components, that's a potential target for refactoring. > some relevant docs Read the docs. All of them. React isn't that big.

Thank you. Neither of those topics are new to me. Great to know!

Re: Svelte 5 Released

#205

Post by ffsm8 »

WuxiFingerHold wrote: post #146
ffsm8 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the goal of disabling SSR though? I get that hydrations value is mainly in SEO and a tiny improvement in initial draw speed, but why would you want it disabled, specifically? It's pretty much what you already wrote though. https://kit.svelte.dev/docs/single-page-apps

Running a small Sveltekit app with SSR is the easiest yet most of the time good enough way. However, when your app is larger or needs to be faster, you want a dedicated backend for your API. Then, you can choose a more secure and more scalable language like C#, Go or Kotlin. Regarding performance, many SSR advocates (don't forget there's a huge business behind this stuff) don't do the math correctly. It's faster (or…

You do realize that spa stands for single page application, right? That's just synonymous with virtual/JS based routing, which you're now equating with various other technological decisions.

I get that you've got opinions and like to voice them, but the parent comment didn't say they didn't want to use the node backend whatsoever initially. they only asked how to disable hydration.

IMHO, you'd be better of using Angular or plain svelte for this usecase, as almost all value you get from svelteKIT is the tight backend/frontend integration.

If you don't want that, you're using the wrong tool. But hey, the definition of a hacker is basically "a person that uses a tool for an unintended usecase" (literally: someone that uses an axe to build furniture), and this is called hackernews. To each their own.

Re: Svelte 5 Released

#206

Post by prng2021 »

h_tbob wrote: post #98

I don't understand how React is so popular, still. With Svelte and Vue, I don't think anybody should do a new project with React.

I think being able to use React Native and Expo are a huge differentiator.

Re: Svelte 5 Released

#207

Post by izackp »

My first web project was with svelte.

Lack of a debugger for the server sided JavaScript seems just as silly to me as server sided JavaScript. I would consider that alone a non-starter.

I’d recommend another solution for experienced devs.

Re: Svelte 5 Released

#208

Post by datavirtue »

b3ing wrote: post #48

Hope it starts to chip into React’s usershare and more companies adopt it, but I know that’s a slow process especially for the big companies. I got out of front end development for most of the years Angular and React have dominated and it looked like a mess, but Svelte and even Astro make sense, maybe I’m just old school. I would totally go back to the frontend with these new frameworks.

I gave React a handful of year to get popular and mature. I tried to approach it an immediately ran into basically endless arguments and bitching about how to manage state. There was no clear winner so I dropped it. Everywhere I landed trying to find advice or best practices just led to more questions. Like WTF?

Svelt, Vue3 or hell...Angular, and it's off to the races. I just need to know how to accomplish all the things being demanded by Product.

Re: Svelte 5 Released

#209

Post by datavirtue »

b3ing wrote: post #167
sureIy wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Vue hasn't made a dent, I don't ever expect Svelte to. Angular was the only high-level competitor and I haven't heard that one in a long time already. For a framework to eat into React's usage, it needs a strong evangelist (like Facebook has been for React)

But didn’t Vue come before React? And it’s mostly the same from what I understand, it’s not totally different like Svelte. I think it can change, if more people put it on their resumes and LinkedIn and if those that know React say can do things in 1/3 the time with Svelte and mention that in interviews as well. That is a slow way of evangelism for Svelte that can spread.

React has already been chosen. The familiar hammer. Face it, there is an entire workforce worth of devs who think web development is React (and now they are moving into management). The same way droves of people think Facebook is the internet.

Re: Svelte 5 Released

#210

Post by datavirtue »

jbhoot wrote: post #159
esperent wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm building a React app from scratch and since I have control this time, I'm following a strict pattern: all data manipulation (∆) happens outside of React components, and the components themselves are as lightweight as possible. I feel like this change suddenly makes everything about the React paradigm make sense - it can be just a view layer, and when used that way, it works great. But I can't say I've ever worked…

> all data manipulation (∆) happens outside of React components, I do something similar. State and its management lives outside the React components, which only consume this state via hooks. Keeping the state in chunks, and outside the tree lets me access a chunk of state only in the components that need it. This results into minimum amount of re-rendering of components. Component code also looks cleaner and easier t…

This many years on and we are still trying to figure out state management. Wasn't React designed for the view?
Post reply on HN