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Svelte 5 Released

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Re: Svelte 5 Released

#181

Post by levmiseri »

incrudible wrote: post #161
levmiseri wrote: post #40

I can wholeheartedly recommend Svelte. As someone who can only do vanilla HTML/CSS/JS, it lets me build projects quickly and efficiently without having to learn something complex like React. Case in point this silly side project made in Svelte over a weekend: https://meoweler.com

> vanilla HTML/CSS/JS ...but that's what Svelte is not . The techniques you adopt won't transfer over to vanilla HTML/CSS/JS without the magic Svelte compiler. These habits will become crutch when Svelte inevitably goes the way of every Javascript frontend framework. > something complex like React React is not that complex, certainly not more so than Svelte. It's hard to wrap your head around some behaviors, but at t…

I guess it's more that knowing only vanilla HTML/CSS/JS transfers really well to Svelte than the other way around.

Re: Svelte 5 Released

#182

Post by levmiseri »

willy_k wrote: post #46
levmiseri wrote: post #40

I can wholeheartedly recommend Svelte. As someone who can only do vanilla HTML/CSS/JS, it lets me build projects quickly and efficiently without having to learn something complex like React. Case in point this silly side project made in Svelte over a weekend: https://meoweler.com

That website is actually a great way to compare options, thanks for sharing! I did find that it gives a 500 error for Birmingham, AL specifically, if you’re still working on it.

Thanks! I plan to do a better pass over all cities with a new update to the site.

Re: Svelte 5 Released

#183

Post by sampullman »

pier25 wrote: post #139

I've been using Svelte since v3 was released almost daily. I've been using v5 for the past couple of weeks and it's fantastic. The biggest improvement IMO is that you can now write reactive logic intuitively outside your components and it just works without needing to use complex machinery or patterns like Mobx, Redux, or Vuex. I've been doing frontend since the 90s and used everything under the sun. Svelte 5 is the…

You can use reactivity outside components in Vue without Vuex, I don't find it to be much less intuitive than Svelte (which is also nice, don't get me wrong).

Re: Svelte 5 Released

#185

Post by rikroots »

levmiseri wrote: post #40

I can wholeheartedly recommend Svelte. As someone who can only do vanilla HTML/CSS/JS, it lets me build projects quickly and efficiently without having to learn something complex like React. Case in point this silly side project made in Svelte over a weekend: https://meoweler.com

I went with Svelte when I built out the website for my canvas library a few years back[1]. It's proved to be easy to maintain the site, and I particularly like that it supported my vanilla JS library (which I use on the site's landing page) with minimal fuss.

At some point I want to update the site to use Sveltekit, which I'd been experimenting with in personal projects. But then the team announced Svelte 5 and these things called "runes" and ... I don't know. Having just passed my 60th birthday I'm getting to a stage in my life when keeping up with all the New Shiny makes me wonder if it's worth the effort, or if I should be doing more interesting stuff like creating new content for the site instead.

[1] - https://scrawl-v8.rikweb.org.uk/

Re: Svelte 5 Released

#186

Post by throwawayie6 »

martpie wrote: post #178
lofaszvanitt wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bloated, unnecessarily overcomplicated piece of trash.

That the whole industry embraced. Not bad for a piece of trash.

As someone who had to work around the bugs and limitations of IE6 for years in the enterprise, popularity is not a measurement of how good a technology is.

The reason React is "embraced" by the industry is that it is widely used, not because it's the best choice. This lowers the risk for companies that can replace its developers with another easily. I'm not saying it's as bad as beeing stuck with a stale IE (yet), but there are surely good alternatives out there.

"Nobody has been fired for choosing IBM", was a saying that applies to React today

It has reached the "IBM" point where it's so widely used, that it has become the most rational choice for enterprise.

We have to wait for a few years while smaller businesses who don't have (or care about) the same risks uses better alternatives until they reach the point where you are not blamed for choosing something outside the box

Re: Svelte 5 Released

#187

Post by WickyNilliams »

b3ing wrote: post #167
sureIy wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Vue hasn't made a dent, I don't ever expect Svelte to. Angular was the only high-level competitor and I haven't heard that one in a long time already. For a framework to eat into React's usage, it needs a strong evangelist (like Facebook has been for React)

But didn’t Vue come before React? And it’s mostly the same from what I understand, it’s not totally different like Svelte. I think it can change, if more people put it on their resumes and LinkedIn and if those that know React say can do things in 1/3 the time with Svelte and mention that in interviews as well. That is a slow way of evangelism for Svelte that can spread.

No, react came first. And Vue is not the same. Vue 3 added reactivity via refs (which are essentially signals by today's terminology). They can be used outside of components, like Svelte's runes. Svelte 5 is very similar to Vue 3. So much so I jokingly called it "svuelte" when they first announced it.

Vue gets unfairly overlooked imo. I worked with it for 12 months and it was mostly a joy

Re: Svelte 5 Released

#188

Post by DecoySalamander »

incrudible wrote: post #161
levmiseri wrote: post #40

I can wholeheartedly recommend Svelte. As someone who can only do vanilla HTML/CSS/JS, it lets me build projects quickly and efficiently without having to learn something complex like React. Case in point this silly side project made in Svelte over a weekend: https://meoweler.com

> vanilla HTML/CSS/JS ...but that's what Svelte is not . The techniques you adopt won't transfer over to vanilla HTML/CSS/JS without the magic Svelte compiler. These habits will become crutch when Svelte inevitably goes the way of every Javascript frontend framework. > something complex like React React is not that complex, certainly not more so than Svelte. It's hard to wrap your head around some behaviors, but at t…

> As a programmer, I want to spend most of my time programming in a programming language

If your work requires you to use a web stack, this attitude will not serve you well in the long run. If you make the effort to learn these technologies, you'll soon find them to be simple and predictable, but admittedly not without some historical baggage. You may even have an easier time with Svelte, since it has everything working out of the box, unlike React, which requires you to figure out a build toolchain and a separate solution for styling.

Re: Svelte 5 Released

#189

Post by DecoySalamander »

ansc wrote: post #162
sansseriff wrote: post #25

Svelte 5 has been very nice to work with over the past few months. Yes, runes require you to think more carefully about lifecycles and updates. And you may end up writing a little more code initially than with svelte 4. But it serves you better in the long run with complex apps. I found a process for gradually turning a simple app into a more complex one that works for me. I iteratively move $state() runes out of .sv…

> I iteratively move $state() runes out of .svelte files and into .svelte.ts files where I build a more abstract data-oriented structure for my app from a series of mutually linked classes. Then those runes can be re-imported into the .svelte files, or used and updated wherever you need. I don’t know exactly how you do this, but it sounds like you are dangling on the global state of the runes. This is DANGEROUS in Sv…

Could you elaborate on why it's dangerous? Aren't runes just proxies with some variables in them?

Re: Svelte 5 Released

#190

Post by WickyNilliams »

written-beyond wrote: post #94
impulser_ wrote: post #73

Why should someone use Svelte 5 over Vue 3? Performance might be the only reason IMO, but once Vue Vapor is release that will most likely not be an advantage. The Vue3 and Svelte 5 API are almost the exact same, but Vue can be used in TS/JS and Svelte 5 can't. I do think SvelteKit is better than Nuxt by a lot. Maybe that's a big advantage.

Well I don't know how Vue3 is but I used Vue before, don't know exactly which version it was. I found the mental model behind managing state in Vue a little difficult. There was a lot of syntax I had to learn/understand before I could work with it. OTH when I first worked with a svelte working with the code base was extremely straightforward, and that was my very first time touching JS. I think the main reason for Sv…

You probably used Vue 2. Vue 3 essentially uses signals for reactivity and it's very straightforward once you have a mental model. It's model is very similar to svelte 5
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