PHP Bug #18556 : Setting locale to 'tr_TR' lowercases class names

Post by mikeash » Mon, Jul 02, 2012, 3:10 PM UTC

lonnyk wrote: post #93

mikeash wrote: post #82

Every time an article critical of PHP appears, defenders come out of the woodwork. It's a great language, they say. It's no more flawed than any other language. Critics are just biased. It has problems, but other languages have problems too. People build large apps with PHP, so it must be good. But come on. This language is complete crap. Code spontaneously fails depending on the locale? And the bug has been open for…

> Code spontaneously fails depending on the locale? It doesn't spontaneously fail. The languages functions are case-insensitive and they documented this. [1] [2] When you change the locale to Turkish the letters change. Thus, the class name changes and no longer works as expected. So it is documented because it may not as expected, but it is not spontaneous. [1] http://www.php.net/manual/en/functions.user-defined.php…

Post by j_col » Mon, Jul 02, 2012, 3:16 PM UTC

josteink wrote: post #84

gouranga wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are the only reasonable voice on the matter I've heard so far. Infinite upvotes from me. We all know PHP has its shortcomings, but there appears to be a witch hunt going on here.

We all know PHP has its shortcomings, but there appears to be a witch hunt going on here. I think some of the witch hunt comes in attempt to steer people away from a language which is badly designed and has a million bugs which cannot be fixed without breaking most of the existing code written for the language. Pestering a language like that is only fair. While I'm sure it gets tiresome for those who for whatever rea…

Post by devmach » Mon, Jul 02, 2012, 3:36 PM UTC

ebiester wrote: post #56

gokhan wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take the case of software insisting on state input hence unusable outside US. Do you blame the error to George Washington?

Şimdi İstanbul'da oturuyorum. :) (I think that's right, I'm still learning the language...) The comment was meant to be snarky -- obviously, the e-i-ö-ü \ a-ı-o-u rule would be broken, which is the reason for the undotted I. Further, nobody could have anticipated in 1927 the vast extent of automation that we are going through now. For those that don't know Turkish, there is a faced of the language called vowel harmon…

Post by flatline3 » Mon, Jul 02, 2012, 4:01 PM UTC

j_col wrote: post #80

jasonlotito wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody seriously criticizing PHP is ridiculing people working with it. I rarely see this. I've found it hard to find a good criticism of PHP that doesn't find a way to insult it's user base. Probably the best criticism of PHP has come from Jeff Atwood's recent post[1] (and even he couldn't go the post without slinging immature, and downright vulgar insults). 1. http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2012/06/the-php-singu…

That's exactly what I'm talking about, it's insulting and it disappoints me that all of the recent HN threads have been full of similar insults. Their arguments always seem to boil down to "my hammer is better than your hammer, and you're an idiot for choosing the wrong hammer, but luckily I am here to re-educate you".

Post by slurgfest » Mon, Jul 02, 2012, 4:19 PM UTC

Tloewald wrote: post #69

j_col wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After 5+ years of eloquent, smart programmers* posting long, well researched screeds about what's deeply broken with PHP's design at the most fundamental levels, there is no other conclusion to be reached. Issuing holy decrees from their ivory towers more like. Meanwhile, lots of tremendously successful companies doing real work in PHP each and every day, at the coal face, where it matters. Does their hard work des…

It seems to me that the kicker is the obviously superior alternatives, such as python, ruby, and JavaScript, don't offer the ease of deployment that php has via mod_php, and instead insist on the developer writing a web server. While there are advantages (performance, control) to the web server approach it is clear that there are advantages (simplicty) to being able to stick code snippets in web pages. If you could d…