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Worldcoin has a new Orb and is now just World

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Re: Worldcoin has a new Orb and is now just World

#11

Post by AyyEye »

throwway120385 wrote: post #9
sksxihve wrote: post #6

So if I understand this right, this is a physical thing you stand in front of to prove that you are a unique human before making some transaction with another possibly unique human...

Well, kind of. It's also a physical thing that you stand in front of to give up a bunch of biometric information to go in some database somewhere for...some reason that is unspecified. The fact that they're doing it "for free" suggests to me that there is some purpose to it that makes it profitable in spite of the costs. Given how much everyone's data is actually worth, I suspect that the reason it's free is because…

> some reason that is unspecified.

Their end goal is for you to need this to use the internet.

> something like World ID will eventually exist, meaning that you will need to verify [that you are human] on the internet, whether you like it or not. I think that's certainly going to happen with the progress in AI.

https://www.coindesk.com/consensus-magazine/2023/07/10/an-or...

Re: Worldcoin has a new Orb and is now just World

#12

Post by llamaimperative »

akira2501 wrote: post #8
Synaesthesia wrote: post #2

When I first was interested in cryptocurrency, or Bitcoin, this is the sort of thing which made me excited. The idea of a new currency outside of the control of states or banks, which will take back the power for ordinary people. It soon stopped being about that and about "hodl" and self-enrichment. I applaud this project for being in the original spirit of Bitcoin. I've since come to realise that the important thing…

> It soon stopped being about that I submit that it could never have actually been about that. It may have been out of the states control but it was far to technocratic and dependent on first movers so it was always going to leave behind the class of people you hoped it would most benefit. > the original spirit of Bitcoin Is effectively "you don't need permission." That's _it_. People projected quite a bit onto that.

Yep, it was very obviously going to produce landgrab dynamics. Like... it would be utterly astounding for someone not to see that from day one.

Re: Worldcoin has a new Orb and is now just World

#13

Post by game_the0ry »

AyyEye wrote: post #10

I'm sure there's already a plan to monetize and privatize what's soon to be the most valuable biometric database on earth. Plus it's cute how they developed the problem [reaction] solution in parallel. [1] > Something like World ID will eventually exist, meaning that you will need to verify [that you are human] on the internet, whether you like it or not. I think that's certainly going to happen with the progress in…

> Something like World ID will eventually exist, meaning that you will need to verify [that you are human] on the internet, whether you like it or not. I think that's certainly going to happen with the progress in AI.

No thanks. I would prefer to just opt out.

Re: Worldcoin has a new Orb and is now just World

#16

Post by grishka »

I've not researched how this works, but this definitely feels like one of those things where if you dig deep enough into it, it boils down to "we verify your 'humanness' by checking that there's your biometric data signed by our private key, for which the public key is hardcoded everywhere, so trust us please".

Re: Worldcoin has a new Orb and is now just World

#17

Post by [deleted] »

AyyEye wrote: post #11
throwway120385 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, kind of. It's also a physical thing that you stand in front of to give up a bunch of biometric information to go in some database somewhere for...some reason that is unspecified. The fact that they're doing it "for free" suggests to me that there is some purpose to it that makes it profitable in spite of the costs. Given how much everyone's data is actually worth, I suspect that the reason it's free is because…

> some reason that is unspecified. Their end goal is for you to need this to use the internet. > something like World ID will eventually exist, meaning that you will need to verify [that you are human] on the internet, whether you like it or not. I think that's certainly going to happen with the progress in AI. https://www.coindesk.com/consensus-magazine/2023/07/10/an-or...

[deleted]

Re: Worldcoin has a new Orb and is now just World

#18

Post by runako »

game_the0ry wrote: post #13
AyyEye wrote: post #10

I'm sure there's already a plan to monetize and privatize what's soon to be the most valuable biometric database on earth. Plus it's cute how they developed the problem [reaction] solution in parallel. [1] > Something like World ID will eventually exist, meaning that you will need to verify [that you are human] on the internet, whether you like it or not. I think that's certainly going to happen with the progress in…

> Something like World ID will eventually exist, meaning that you will need to verify [that you are human] on the internet, whether you like it or not. I think that's certainly going to happen with the progress in AI. No thanks. I would prefer to just opt out.

If this was necessary to solve a problem, why wouldn't the existing Internet access points simply solve the problems?

For example, why would Apple not add liveness detection to its devices, which users already trust with their biometric data?

One could imagine a Web standard that specifies minimum capabilities for user agents, which could then be implemented in a variety of ways. Apple might use an upgraded FaceID, for example.

That would have the added benefit of being able to verify liveness anywhere, anytime, unlike the Orbs.

World feels like a ZIRP phenomenon.

Re: Worldcoin has a new Orb and is now just World

#19

Post by Terr_ »

AyyEye wrote: post #10

I'm sure there's already a plan to monetize and privatize what's soon to be the most valuable biometric database on earth. Plus it's cute how they developed the problem [reaction] solution in parallel. [1] > Something like World ID will eventually exist, meaning that you will need to verify [that you are human] on the internet, whether you like it or not. I think that's certainly going to happen with the progress in…

> > verify [that you are human] on the internet

IMO it's crucial that we keep in mind the policy/engineering differences between:

1. Prove you're a human and share your global permanent ID.

2. Prove you're probably human.

3. Prove that if you're a bot you're at least the high-quality kind that isn't part of an army and whose operators are likely to follow the rules.

In many cases #1 is overkill, difficult to engineer, has reams of nasty privacy implications, and requires a massive amount of bureaucracy for edge-cases.

Most websites are happy with #2 or even #3.

[Edit: Some prior musings in comments here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41714245 , where someone also mentions Worldcoin.]

Re: Worldcoin has a new Orb and is now just World

#20

Post by lolinder »

modeless wrote: post #15

I get that this solution is distasteful. But verifying humanity on the Internet is a real problem that is getting harder and more important very quickly. CAPTCHAs aren't going to work much longer. What is a solution that people can live with?

Playing devil's advocate: why is it important? Why do we need to know if an agent on the internet is human or robot?

Generally what we actually need to know is if a given agent is engaging in manipulative behavior, illegal activities, or otherwise causing harm to us or our customers. Those behaviors are often correlated with robot agents, which has allowed us to use "is this a robot" as an imperfect proxy for "is this agent up to no good". But for most use cases the humanity isn't actually what we're interested in, it's whether the agent is abusive.

In a world where we can't verify humanity as easily, maybe we just need to find different proxies for abuse detection?

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