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Impact of early life adversity on reward processing in young adults (2014)

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Re: Impact of early life adversity on reward processing in young adults (2014)

#31

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

potato3732842 wrote: post #27
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can't just do first order stuff like extend bennies to single moms because then people won't get married and it's easier to split up if you're not married, then you've got a legit single mom on your hands with all the poorer outcomes that entails. Refusing to provide support to an person who wants to leave a relationship leads to several other factors, some on this very list. Indeed, staying in a dysfunctional,…

The results of 50yr of various flavors of this policy kind of speak for themselves (which is why I specifically chose to mention it as my example). It's better for society if people get married, (or perform some other socially agreed upon ritual that both requires investment and signals future investment) BEFORE they start cranking out the crotchfruit. Extending more aid to people who skip this step than those who go…

> It's better for society if people get married, (or perform some other socially agreed upon ritual that both requires investment and signals future investment) BEFORE they start cranking out the crotchfruit

The children of dysfunctional, unwanted, and potentially-abusive relationships speak for themselves: Given a couple with a kid, in a dysfunctional, unwanted, potentially-abusive relationship (marriage or otherwise), it's better for them to end the relationship. Raising a child in such an environment leads to all sorts of disorders (as described in this very article), and is worse than a single parent or separated parents properly raising the child with adequate support, financial and otherwise.

Unfortunately we cannot hand-wave away dysfunctional relationships, unwanted relationships, abusive relationships (to say nothing of domestic violence), and all that comes with them, no matter how easy it is, how much we wish we could, or which fish you wish to change the subject to.

Re: Impact of early life adversity on reward processing in young adults (2014)

#32

Post by squidgedcricket »

austin-cheney wrote: post #15
throw88888 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is stated just above the quoted text. Basically a lower-than-expected response to reward anticipation and a higher-than-expected response upon reward delivery. I.e. the typical ADHD problem of instant vs delayed gratification and how the brain responds to it. Neurotypical people’s brains seem to be better at rewarding in anticipation and not just on actual delivery. IIUC

Yes, the utility behind that behavior is that the brain floods itself with dopamine when task completion feels imminently close in anticipation of the approaching reward. The flooding of dopamine, which is the motivation, does not suggest increased dopamine reception, which is the reward. That utility alone accounts for gambling addiction. Consider that slot machines are a game of random chance against fixed odds. Ev…

Can you elaborate on what medications impact gambling behaviors?

I have some addictive/compulsive behaviors that have been hard to shake. GLP-1 agonists look promising, but I'm not sure how to get a prescription since I'm not overweight.

Re: Impact of early life adversity on reward processing in young adults (2014)

#33

Post by squidgedcricket »

swayvil wrote: post #21
bob_theslob646 wrote: post #5

"Moreover, a similar activation pattern related to lifetime ADHD may suggest that the impact of early life stress on ADHD may possibly be mediated by a dysfunctional reward pathway." What is a dysfunctional reward pathway?

Normal brain : The joy of considering future reward is greater than the joy of actual reward. Dysfunctional brain : The reverse. (Which makes me go hmm)

Other brains: No joy in response to future or present rewards. Anxiety on the journey, shame at the destination.

Re: Impact of early life adversity on reward processing in young adults (2014)

#34

Post by _yb2s »

malfist wrote: post #14
atwrk wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nitpick: dopamine means reward anticipation , the longing for the goal, not the satisfaction of achieving the goal.

I was completely sure you were wrong and went and did a bunch of reading on Wikipedia and realized that my understanding of the reward pathway was incorrect. Thanks for educating me a bit today. I thought dopamine was both the anticipatory neurotransmitters and the reward. But the reward neurotransmitters are different, they're your endorphins, endogenous opioids.

It seems this is a sort of trick our brains evolved to play on us that drives us to act- which makes sense. It is the anticipation of a reward that drives strong feelings and behaviors, but the reward itself is usually not as big of a deal- we work hard for something we expect to be great, but when it actually happens we barely notice and immediately move on to thinking about something else.

If dopamine only happened once you received a reward, it would not cause you to get you to actually act before hand.

Re: Impact of early life adversity on reward processing in young adults (2014)

#35

Post by FrustratedMonky »

airstrike wrote: post #25
chaos_emergent wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you’re describing is emergence, but it doesn’t mean that an emergent system doesn’t have mechanistic underpinnings. Your body gives rise to consciousness, but it doesn’t mean that you can’t treat blood pressure with medication.

It does mean that not all of the body's behavior can be explained by blood pressure. Emergent properties are not necessarily addressable (or describable, in the case of the OP) at the underlying level.

People used to think an Atom was the smallest particle, then they found Protons/Electrons etc.., then they found quarks.

The brain is complicated, that doesn't mean we can't measure it and try and understand it. Right now people are just 'It's impossible, it must be a soul, or something mystical' how else could it be the way it is?

Re: Impact of early life adversity on reward processing in young adults (2014)

#36

Post by FrustratedMonky »

airstrike wrote: post #26
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively, the opposing view is a "fallacy" in that sense, unless you believe the brain is magical and doesn't obey the laws of physics and chemistry.

You needn't believe in magic, only in emergent properties well within the constraints of science.

The whole water is wet is an 'emergent' property. This is true, linking emergent properties to the underlying smaller scale can be very difficult. Just not impossible. There is recent work on how water molecules interact that can explain 'wetness'. It is difficult, not impossible.

Re: Impact of early life adversity on reward processing in young adults (2014)

#37

Post by jamalaramala »

potato3732842 wrote: post #27
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can't just do first order stuff like extend bennies to single moms because then people won't get married and it's easier to split up if you're not married, then you've got a legit single mom on your hands with all the poorer outcomes that entails. Refusing to provide support to an person who wants to leave a relationship leads to several other factors, some on this very list. Indeed, staying in a dysfunctional,…

The results of 50yr of various flavors of this policy kind of speak for themselves (which is why I specifically chose to mention it as my example). It's better for society if people get married, (or perform some other socially agreed upon ritual that both requires investment and signals future investment) BEFORE they start cranking out the crotchfruit. Extending more aid to people who skip this step than those who go…

> The results of 50yr of various flavors of this policy kind of speak for themselves

Maybe... just maybe... the US does not have enough social policies to assist the most vulnerable?

Re: Impact of early life adversity on reward processing in young adults (2014)

#38

Post by riehwvfbk »

potato3732842 wrote: post #27
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can't just do first order stuff like extend bennies to single moms because then people won't get married and it's easier to split up if you're not married, then you've got a legit single mom on your hands with all the poorer outcomes that entails. Refusing to provide support to an person who wants to leave a relationship leads to several other factors, some on this very list. Indeed, staying in a dysfunctional,…

The results of 50yr of various flavors of this policy kind of speak for themselves (which is why I specifically chose to mention it as my example). It's better for society if people get married, (or perform some other socially agreed upon ritual that both requires investment and signals future investment) BEFORE they start cranking out the crotchfruit. Extending more aid to people who skip this step than those who go…

> BEFORE they start cranking out the crotchfruit

While you are being all edgy and misanthropic and childfree or whatever, you do realize that you are included in this definition?

Re: Impact of early life adversity on reward processing in young adults (2014)

#39

Post by biorach »

potato3732842 wrote: post #16
082349872349872 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No actions to take? The actions to take would appear to depend upon whether one wishes to have fewer adults with lifetime ADHD symptoms, or more*. The childhood adversities to affect either way are from [RutterQuinton77] and listed in TFA's Table S1, abbreviated here: *Low educational level parent with neither school nor training *Overcrowding more than 1.0 person/room or housing The ones marked with * are those fa…

Tread carefully. Your comment has the aroma of exactly the sort of first order thinking that over the past 50yr resulted in welfare programs exacerbating that exact list of problems (among others) that you're saying we can solve with more welfare. I don't know what the solution is but using government to replace or supplement the kind of support that people traditionally got from their family, friends and network has…

any citations for all that?

there's a lot of assumption of causation with no backup.

in particular I'd mention that there are countries with far more extensive welfare programs with measurably better social outcomes, so maybe there's something else going on

Re: Impact of early life adversity on reward processing in young adults (2014)

#40

Post by [deleted] »

riehwvfbk wrote: post #38
potato3732842 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The results of 50yr of various flavors of this policy kind of speak for themselves (which is why I specifically chose to mention it as my example). It's better for society if people get married, (or perform some other socially agreed upon ritual that both requires investment and signals future investment) BEFORE they start cranking out the crotchfruit. Extending more aid to people who skip this step than those who go…

> BEFORE they start cranking out the crotchfruit While you are being all edgy and misanthropic and childfree or whatever, you do realize that you are included in this definition?

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