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Impact of early life adversity on reward processing in young adults (2014)

journals.plos.org

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Re: Impact of early life adversity on reward processing in young adults (2014)

#21

"Moreover, a similar activation pattern related to lifetime ADHD may suggest that the impact of early life stress on ADHD may possibly be mediated by a dysfunctional reward pathway." What is a dysfunctional reward pathway?

Normal brain : The joy of considering future reward is greater than the joy of actual reward.

Dysfunctional brain : The reverse.

(Which makes me go hmm)

Re: Impact of early life adversity on reward processing in young adults (2014)

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No actions to take? The actions to take would appear to depend upon whether one wishes to have fewer adults with lifetime ADHD symptoms, or more*. The childhood adversities to affect either way are from [RutterQuinton77] and listed in TFA's Table S1, abbreviated here: *Low educational level parent with neither school nor training *Overcrowding more than 1.0 person/room or housing The ones marked with * are those fa…

Tread carefully. Your comment has the aroma of exactly the sort of first order thinking that over the past 50yr resulted in welfare programs exacerbating that exact list of problems (among others) that you're saying we can solve with more welfare. I don't know what the solution is but using government to replace or supplement the kind of support that people traditionally got from their family, friends and network has…

> you can't just do first order stuff like extend bennies to single moms because then people won't get married and it's easier to split up if you're not married, then you've got a legit single mom on your hands with all the poorer outcomes that entails.

Refusing to provide support to an person who wants to leave a relationship leads to several other factors, some on this very list. Indeed, staying in a dysfunctional, unwanted, potentially abusive relationship, just because finances force you to, is worse than the alternative.

Re: Impact of early life adversity on reward processing in young adults (2014)

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"a reasonable way to feel given what you've been through" Isn't our brain made of chemicals of all kinds, and how we 'feel' is based on many chemical interactions, and so the "a reasonable way to feel given what you've been through", is the brains natural 'reasonable way to feel' as a reaction given some environment it is in. So this is just measuring that reaction. Maybe think of it more as analyzing why things are,…

That's a fallacy, unless you believe the brain is not greater than the sum of its parts.

What you’re describing is emergence, but it doesn’t mean that an emergent system doesn’t have mechanistic underpinnings. Your body gives rise to consciousness, but it doesn’t mean that you can’t treat blood pressure with medication.

Re: Impact of early life adversity on reward processing in young adults (2014)

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"a reasonable way to feel given what you've been through" Isn't our brain made of chemicals of all kinds, and how we 'feel' is based on many chemical interactions, and so the "a reasonable way to feel given what you've been through", is the brains natural 'reasonable way to feel' as a reaction given some environment it is in. So this is just measuring that reaction. Maybe think of it more as analyzing why things are,…

That's a fallacy, unless you believe the brain is not greater than the sum of its parts.

Alternatively, the opposing view is a "fallacy" in that sense, unless you believe the brain is magical and doesn't obey the laws of physics and chemistry.

Re: Impact of early life adversity on reward processing in young adults (2014)

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a fallacy, unless you believe the brain is not greater than the sum of its parts.

What you’re describing is emergence, but it doesn’t mean that an emergent system doesn’t have mechanistic underpinnings. Your body gives rise to consciousness, but it doesn’t mean that you can’t treat blood pressure with medication.

It does mean that not all of the body's behavior can be explained by blood pressure. Emergent properties are not necessarily addressable (or describable, in the case of the OP) at the underlying level.

Re: Impact of early life adversity on reward processing in young adults (2014)

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a fallacy, unless you believe the brain is not greater than the sum of its parts.

Alternatively, the opposing view is a "fallacy" in that sense, unless you believe the brain is magical and doesn't obey the laws of physics and chemistry.

You needn't believe in magic, only in emergent properties well within the constraints of science.

Re: Impact of early life adversity on reward processing in young adults (2014)

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tread carefully. Your comment has the aroma of exactly the sort of first order thinking that over the past 50yr resulted in welfare programs exacerbating that exact list of problems (among others) that you're saying we can solve with more welfare. I don't know what the solution is but using government to replace or supplement the kind of support that people traditionally got from their family, friends and network has…

> you can't just do first order stuff like extend bennies to single moms because then people won't get married and it's easier to split up if you're not married, then you've got a legit single mom on your hands with all the poorer outcomes that entails. Refusing to provide support to an person who wants to leave a relationship leads to several other factors, some on this very list. Indeed, staying in a dysfunctional,…

The results of 50yr of various flavors of this policy kind of speak for themselves (which is why I specifically chose to mention it as my example).

It's better for society if people get married, (or perform some other socially agreed upon ritual that both requires investment and signals future investment) BEFORE they start cranking out the crotchfruit. Extending more aid to people who skip this step than those who go through it leads to predictable outcomes.

I get that it's really easy to play this off as some sort of pro-woman thing and try and send the discussion careening off into left field by bringing up domestic violence but we both know that's a red herring.

Edit: It was a mistake to reply to this comment at all. This is all a side discussion (ironic considering the subject of TFA). My point wasn't that you can't have government do things. The point was that you can't just pick a metric and turn government loose trying to address it. The goal of historical welfare was to subsidize basic necessities with certain groups getting priority that was generally accomplished (the programs exist, they doll out bennies pursuant to the rules) but it didn't yield the expected improvement on other fronts as intended and in the process we minted a class of people who are all but trapped in a multi-generational cycle of dependance upon the welfare system.

Re: Impact of early life adversity on reward processing in young adults (2014)

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No actions to take? The actions to take would appear to depend upon whether one wishes to have fewer adults with lifetime ADHD symptoms, or more*. The childhood adversities to affect either way are from [RutterQuinton77] and listed in TFA's Table S1, abbreviated here: *Low educational level parent with neither school nor training *Overcrowding more than 1.0 person/room or housing The ones marked with * are those fa…

Tread carefully. Your comment has the aroma of exactly the sort of first order thinking that over the past 50yr resulted in welfare programs exacerbating that exact list of problems (among others) that you're saying we can solve with more welfare. I don't know what the solution is but using government to replace or supplement the kind of support that people traditionally got from their family, friends and network has…

> Tread carefully. Your comment has the aroma of exactly the sort of first order thinking that over the past 50yr resulted in welfare programs exacerbating that exact list of problems (among others) that you're saying we can solve with more welfare.

Who says that the welfare programs exacerbate the problems?

Perhaps it is the lack of welfare programs (particularly in the US, the richest country in the world) that causes so much social problems (compared to less rich European countries).

Re: Impact of early life adversity on reward processing in young adults (2014)

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is stated just above the quoted text. Basically a lower-than-expected response to reward anticipation and a higher-than-expected response upon reward delivery. I.e. the typical ADHD problem of instant vs delayed gratification and how the brain responds to it. Neurotypical people’s brains seem to be better at rewarding in anticipation and not just on actual delivery. IIUC

If you're thinking about 10 different things in quick succession spontaneously flipping between each without control, your brain can't deliver sustained anticipatory reward for the one thing you actually should be working towards. The brain doesn't magically "know" what is important, presence in consciousness is what determines importance and reward allocation. Normal brains are able to fixate without tremendous effo…

Some of the "Flipping around" might be caused by an inability to discount the reward from the thing you're flipping to - it seems important / rewarding. It's not much different than someone refusing to work on an important thing because they can't stop thinking about this neat thing over here that feels cooler. Just to connect to the subject at hand.
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