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FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

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Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#761

Post by lotsofpulp »

osigurdson wrote: post #760
lotsofpulp wrote: post #729

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electronic money accounts and ability to transfer money. People shouldn’t need to deposit their money at a bank or non governmental entity. For example, USPS could provide a constitutionally protected, inalienable right (not even if you go to prison) to an electronic money account, and you can send and receive via an email address or phone number. USPS because there are already physical USPS offices all over the coun…

I would be leery of the high degree of centralization with such a scheme.

We already have the centralization. Except with no oversight of when and who you get banned by and why.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#762

Post by valval »

Uehreka wrote: post #190

When people try and say that regulating stuff like this is impossible, I often think about how unreasonably great the regulations around “Unsubscribe” links in emails are. There really seems to be no loophole or workaround despite there being huge incentive for there to be one. Every time I click an “Unsubscribe” link in an email (it seems like they’re forced to say “Unsubscribe” and not use weasel words to hide the…

I think blocking traffic from a domain into your inbox would be a better way to handle this without regulation.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#763

Post by valval »

HighGoldstein wrote: post #674
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is illegal in Europe, since you can't add somebody to a list without their consent. As usual, I know it's trendy to say on HN the EU is killing innovation with all the regulations, and there is truth to that, but there is also great customer protection, which seems constantly violated in the US. So yes, in the US, companies can flourish, but it seems the consumers are second-class citizens compared to companies.…

If your "innovation" is at risk from consumer protection regulations I question whether it's a good innovation.

Since the people making the innovations and regulations are different, I fear there’s no way to implement regulation that doesn’t lead to suboptimal results.

And to be clear, when I say suboptimal results I mean misery and death in large quantities.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#765

Post by runeks »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #657
justinpombrio wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unsubscribe links are a fantastic regulation, but there is a workaround. I must have received at least a dozen emails from Brown after graduating despite unsubscribing to every email they sent. The trouble is they're endlessly creative about the lists they put you on. I'd get one email from "Alumni Connections" and then another from "Faculty Spotlight" and then another from "Global Outreach" and then another from "Ev…

This is illegal in Europe, since you can't add somebody to a list without their consent. As usual, I know it's trendy to say on HN the EU is killing innovation with all the regulations, and there is truth to that, but there is also great customer protection, which seems constantly violated in the US. So yes, in the US, companies can flourish, but it seems the consumers are second-class citizens compared to companies.…

> We pay the price by having a weaker economy, they pay the price by having less dignity in their life, but there is eventually balance.

It doesn't need to be black or white.

A country can have decent consumer protections without e.g. a tax policy that is hostile to startups. But many EU countries are seemingly uninterested in the latter — presumably because there are no votes in it.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#766

Post by socksy »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #657
justinpombrio wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unsubscribe links are a fantastic regulation, but there is a workaround. I must have received at least a dozen emails from Brown after graduating despite unsubscribing to every email they sent. The trouble is they're endlessly creative about the lists they put you on. I'd get one email from "Alumni Connections" and then another from "Faculty Spotlight" and then another from "Global Outreach" and then another from "Ev…

This is illegal in Europe, since you can't add somebody to a list without their consent. As usual, I know it's trendy to say on HN the EU is killing innovation with all the regulations, and there is truth to that, but there is also great customer protection, which seems constantly violated in the US. So yes, in the US, companies can flourish, but it seems the consumers are second-class citizens compared to companies.…

From reading all these messages, I'm curious if an American couldn't try sending a GDPR deletion request by email to some of these organisations. Sure, it only technically applies to European citizens, but it applies to them anywhere in the world — do they really have it on record that you're not one? And of course, if they do a Home Depot style block-all-EU-ip-addresses thing they probably wouldn't care. But in those cases they still break the law, they're just reasonably sure that it will never be enforced against them.

I would imagine the potential legal risk for some orgs would be enough to make them comply, especially those with a European presence (and surely a university like Brown must have both at least one legal entity and enough alumni in the EU for them to count). The worst they could do is say no.

it technically applies to anyone resident in the EEA and UK, as well as citizens of the EEA and the UK abroad

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#767

Post by BiteCode_dev »

valval wrote: post #763
HighGoldstein wrote: post #674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your "innovation" is at risk from consumer protection regulations I question whether it's a good innovation.

Since the people making the innovations and regulations are different, I fear there’s no way to implement regulation that doesn’t lead to suboptimal results. And to be clear, when I say suboptimal results I mean misery and death in large quantities.

Yes, but the innovators' incentives don't always align with the needs of the people the regulations should protect.

Regulation are a necessary balance, otherwise the innovators become so powerful they eventually concentrate all the power and privilege and make weaker people pay for it.

Chlorofluorocarbons were an innovation for some times, then we needed regulation to save our ozone layer. Industrial wouldn't have stopped using it.

It's a fine line, constantly moving, an nobody will never be perfectly happy about it.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#768

Post by TrapLord_Rhodo »

osigurdson wrote: post #683

The problem is actually in the payment system itself. A credit card number + expiry + ccv + name is essentially like giving out a username + password to your money. We hand out the same username / password to everybody and everything works on the honor system after that. At any given time there are likely hundreds of companies that have your username/password and can charge whatever they want at any time. If anything…

This. It's crazy we don't have a public/ private key system for our credit cards. One of the reasons i prefer to pay with crypto when i can. When i give you my credit card information you are pulling from my account instead of me pushing into your account. The difference is subtle but a very big one from a security perspective.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#769

Post by chicagocubs99 »

shepherdjerred wrote: post #125
krunck wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon is the worst in this regard.

You should try cancelling the New York Times, Bon Appetite, or Planet Fitness

Perhaps they've changed their process, but I canceled my New York times subscription about 2 weeks ago was able to do it online with absolutely no problem. It was a very easy process. They did offer me much better deal when I tried to cancel but I still went through with it.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#770

Post by khushick »

cortesoft wrote: post #174
TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #96

It would be great to see the FTC go against predatory subscription services like Adobe. I'm fuzzy on the exact details, but I think they promoted a yearly subscription that was meant to look like a monthly subscription, where if you cancelled early they would charge you an exorbitant cancellation fee. I'm not sure how these new rules affect them. One recent idea I've had is that many online subscription services shou…

Man, I remember when Amazon Prime first started, I signed up for the free trial to get free shipping on something. Of course, I forgot about it and didn’t cancel, but then I got an email from Amazon saying, “hey, you didn’t cancel your prime subscription but you also haven’t used it at all, so we are going to not charge you and cancel it for now. Here is how you easily restart your subscription if you end up needing…

Would you have that email from Amazon? That sounds interesting!!
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