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Show HN: Sava OS – A desktop interface for your web browser

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Re: Show HN: Sava OS – A desktop interface for your web browser

#81

Post by smt88 »

AyyEye wrote: post #57

Emulated desktop Operating system written in a high level language, compiled to an intermediate assembly language, run on a virtual machine written in JavaScript, executed in a javascript engine, run inside of a sandbox inside of a browser, inside of an operating system just like the proprietary one one being run at the bottom of the stack. All so you can "create text files" on a proprietary platform that won't work…

VS Code's stack is approaching this level of abstraction/translation/insanity, but it's still performant and useful.

Re: Show HN: Sava OS – A desktop interface for your web browser

#82

Post by botanical76 »

owenfar wrote: post #75
mzajc wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I feel like the bold statements about encryption should be removed until this is implemented to avoid misleading users. Out of curiosity, is the data encrypted with a client-provided secret (eg. a password hash, or something that would otherwise be impossible to extract from the server), or is the secret stored on the server?

I'm not sure I agree about it being a bold statement. Our description is very clear, and our approach is still much safer. I see hundreds of products slapping "Encryption at rest" to make people believe their data is safe :) Yet, it's accessible by anyone that controls the server... We also go further into details in the privacy page too. The data cannot be decrypted without a client-provided secret. We'll make sure…

In my opinion it is misleading. Your "privacy by default" section has three headings which claim encryption, and while none of them are false, you can still just log everything your server receives. This is less private than What's App, and it's marketed as an Operating System -- for everything that you do. I think it's worth considering moving the encryption to be done client-side as long as there are no performance concerns.

Re: Show HN: Sava OS – A desktop interface for your web browser

#83

Post by ferbivore »

owenfar wrote: post #64
mzajc wrote: post #55

I have given your service a try, and while the UX was impressive, I was bothered by an apparent lack of encryption. The landing page, the privacy policy, and your mission statement all make many mentions of encryption and security, yet (besides TLS) there doesn't seem to be any encryption going on as far as my browser is concerned. I created a new folder, created a text file in the folder, and added some text to the…

This is a really good point and I have thought about this multiple times along the way. Web Crypto API seemed ideal, but it brought its own complexities, especially if you want to have quick access on multiple browsers/devices. It's true that as it is, it still requires trust. We do have our own custom servers, and we made sure that no logs related to personal data are ever stored, and encryption is done on the appli…

So what you've done is redefine "application" to mean half of your backend? Meaning your privacy page, which claims "we don't & cannot observe what you are doing", is outright lying? Meanwhile you're here commenting about how "the encryption & anonymity are rock solid" and nothing at all like the "encryption at rest" other services have. This is insanely sketchy.

Re: Show HN: Sava OS – A desktop interface for your web browser

#84

Post by skadamat »

syndeo wrote: post #30
skadamat wrote: post #2

This is pretty neat! I wish web browsers on Mac could span to 2-3 monitors because then you could really build a great spatial environment for web browsing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klTjiXjqHrQ&themeRefresh=1

If you disable the following setting, windows should again span across displays as they used to: Settings > Desktop & Dock > Displays have separate Spaces

Oo! I need to try this thanks for the tip

Re: Show HN: Sava OS – A desktop interface for your web browser

#85

Post by karmakaze »

First thing I though was that it looks like my Android phone when plugged into a monitor. So then the question is what do I gain/lose by running in a browser? I would expect the Android versions of the apps (Netflix, Spotify, etc) to be better and more efficient.

The only gain I could think of was the extra level of sandboxing the apps. That might be worth it for some apps, so I can always run those in a browser on my normal OS. For this to work out, it has to offer something else like Chromebooks which was packaged on low priced hardware and worked more like an appliance without PC maintenance. Running a browser OS on normal hardware+OS doesn't make any sense to me.

Re: Show HN: Sava OS – A desktop interface for your web browser

#86

Post by rocketvole »

For me it makes sense if you're using a bunch of shared devices but want to keep your tabs/projects/files all open in a safe place. It looks like google drive sync is in the works, and I think this would make it much more useful. Outside of a managed enterprise environment, though, I don't really see the advantage.

It looks like the idea is to make it so that every type of app can run everywhere within the browser. Once again, cool, but useless unless these apps optimize for smaller vs larger devices and different storage versions, at which point I don't see the difference from a pwa, unless I'm interpreting this incorrectly? Otherwise every other example on the webpage seems to be really basic like text files, which, as others have pointed out, have many existing apps with robust sync capabilities.

Re: Show HN: Sava OS – A desktop interface for your web browser

#87

Post by slotrans »

I am plausibly a person this is for.

Right now I rely on TabsOutliner when using Chrome (which I only use for work). It lets me keep 400+ tabs open and stay sane. I like it so much that I've paid for it 3 times, and would have paid a 4th time but it seems you can't anymore, and I fear it's abandoned.

In any case, this is how I work. I use browser tabs as a kind of short- to medium-term memory. I open a bunch of things, and keep them open for as long as I might plausibly need them. To me this is just normal. I don't know how anyone lives with only 10 or 20 tabs open, or a 50 tabs in a single window. How could you remember anything? But without TabsOutliner or something like it, this becomes a sprawling mess, because the browser gives you no native means to search it, or "zoom out".

Unfortunately TabsOutliner isn't available for Firefox, which I use when I have a choice. So seeing SavaOS promote Chrome... I lose a little interest right away. If it doesn't work in Firefox it's not worth getting excited about, because Chrome as a piece of software treats me like an enemy and I don't like that. So: support Firefox!

That said, if SavaOS gives me the capability to organize my tabs, maybe treat them like files I can put in directories etc etc, that sounds awesome and I want to try it. At the very least maybe it's better than TabsOutliner.

But seriously: Firefox!

Re: Show HN: Sava OS – A desktop interface for your web browser

#88

Post by owenfar »

notamy wrote: post #44
notamy wrote: post #8

I struggle to understand the use-case. What does this actually offer me over just using a normal web browser with maybe a customised new tab page? I made an account with a throwaway email to play around with it, and I honestly didn't understand why I'd want to use this over whatever workflow I have now.

Coming back to this some time after my original comment, a few more thoughts in no particular order: > a modern, desktop-like UI that meets today's needs What are "today's needs"? Why does the standard desktop interaction paradigm not work with them? Why does "move it into the browser" solve the problem? > it actually has some useful features to help with your browsing management I can see some potentially-interestin…

I appreciate your detailed response, so thank you for taking your time to explain.

First, I would like to point you to this page: https://savaos.com/about - I don't know if you've seen it already, but it explains in brief what we want to achieve/envision. Should explain some of your "what the hell is this" questions :) And as you can see, it's a very ambitious goal.

I agree with a lot of your arguments. To be honest, the most challenging part so far has been to try to explain what we're doing. "What would be the right MVP?", "How can we evaluate such a project?", "Is something like this even feasible?".. these kinds of questions constantly popped up in our heads. My point is, we had to start somewhere.

We don't know if this is the right direction yet, but so far we've seen some interest and already received valuable feedback. The best use-case right now is practically link & tab management. Definitely overkill for just that, but for "non-tech" people, it does feels familiar.

I'm not a UX designer, I tried my best with the design and I've personally worked on a lot of accessibility features before (in terms of code). It's not there yet I get that, but it will.

Regarding the comments, on the contrary, I don't see much of negativity here. Just people expressing their gut feeling, but I like it a lot. Much better then hearing the typical non-sense "congrats" & "all the best" kind of feedback. This is what opens my mind the most to make crucial decisions for the next steps.

By the way, I did mention that it's an MVP. In my opinion all MVPs are toys and demos of "what can become". Perhaps I'm too good of a designer for not being an actual designer, and it looks too good? I'll take that as a compliment.

Re: Show HN: Sava OS – A desktop interface for your web browser

#89

Post by neilalexander »

owenfar wrote: post #58
Zhyl wrote: post #50

Why is it called Sava OS when it isn't an operating system. Shouldn't it be Sava DE or something?

Technically, you can say that an OS is a term for managing complexity. We're managing the complexity that comes with the modern age of the internet & the web platform. At this stage, I agree it might sound like an overstatement, but it's aligned with our vision and where we eventually want to take it.

What isn't clear is how you believe this manages complexity. What does it actually do that my browser and desktop aren't already doing for me?

As with all of these "desktop in a browser" demos, it looks and feels fun for a couple minutes, but there's no story-telling here as to why I'd actually want to commit to using it instead of the tried-and-tested tools that are native, accessible and already right there.

Re: Show HN: Sava OS – A desktop interface for your web browser

#90

Post by fasa99 »

AyyEye wrote: post #57

Emulated desktop Operating system written in a high level language, compiled to an intermediate assembly language, run on a virtual machine written in JavaScript, executed in a javascript engine, run inside of a sandbox inside of a browser, inside of an operating system just like the proprietary one one being run at the bottom of the stack. All so you can "create text files" on a proprietary platform that won't work…

In the big picture we start with the server side -

>cloud computer running a

>linux machine running a

>virtual machine running a

>linux machine running a

>virtual docker environment running a

>instance of python running a

>virtual python environment running a

>codebase

>serving a

>operating system compiled to

>assembly running on a

>virtual machine compiled to

>javascript JIT comiled to

>assembly running on a

>virtual sandbox running on a

>virtual machine running on a

>linux machine on a

>home computer

So I think we can all agree it's a mess. Magic numbers, frozen configurations, too many configurations that are different. One very elegant around making sure configurations and libraries are setup correctly - perhaps another layer or ten of virtualization?

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