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How Israel’s bulky pager fooled Hezbollah

reuters.com

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Re: How Israel’s bulky pager fooled Hezbollah

#191

Post by runarberg »

tptacek wrote: post #155
hmcq6 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no such thing as a right to military strikes without counterattacks. I'm not "moralizing" I'm citing the UN, and nobody is saying that ^ Israel is a colonist apartheid. It doesn't have a right to occupy Palestine and Palestine does have the right to fight back. It's not that Palestine can bomb and Israel can't, it's that Israel must dissolve. Israel has neither the right to bomb nor the right to exist. Pal…

Israel is not going to dissolve. They're 9 million people with a hypercapable, nuclear-armed military.

History disagrees with you. Apartheid states—even nuclear armed ones—have in the past dissolved into a one democratic state of all their peoples.

Re: How Israel’s bulky pager fooled Hezbollah

#192

Post by CapricornNoble »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #65
soulofmischief wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only acceptable "civilian casualty per targeted combatant ratio" is zero . The recent terrorist attack committed by Israel in Lebanon and Syria breaks every respectable moral compass. Innocent people, including children, were harmed and continue to be harmed by Israel's ongoing war campaign. And I can't believe I have to say this, but "maiming" children is not any less morally bankrupt than killing them.

[flagged]

> Israel is attempting to stop further attacks on the only place that Jews are allowed to protect themselves.

We have the 2nd Amendment in the United States. Jews are quite able to protect themselves there. Israel isn't the only place. I liked Ari Shaffir's light-hearted retorts to Howie Mandell on the issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQNieyWrZ0c (Jimmy Dore commentary on their segment)

> I consider them righteous.

This is arguably why Israel exists at all: "righteous" Christian fundamentalists including Harry Truman himself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elQGTyqx2x8

Re: How Israel’s bulky pager fooled Hezbollah

#193

Post by markus_zhang »

> Gold Apollo’s chairman, Hsu Ching-kuang, told reporters a day after the pager attack that he was approached about three years ago by a former employee, Teresa Wu, and her “big boss, called Tom” to discuss a licence agreement.

> Hsu said he had scant information about Wu’s superior, but he granted them the right to design their own products and market them under the widely distributed Gold Apollo brand. Reuters could not establish the identity of the manager, nor whether the person or Wu knowingly worked with Israeli intelligence.

These make me wonder whether major players would quickly allocate production to their own countries as well as their vassal countries where they can comfortably spy on. It is not that difficult for a major player to infiltrate a foreign civilian product factory, say, produces lower end MCUs that are used in infrastructure, find a list of customers and plan accordingly.

And in this case it is very suspicious that Hsu did not even ask any questions.

Re: How Israel’s bulky pager fooled Hezbollah

#194

Post by tptacek »

runarberg wrote: post #190
tptacek wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It just doesn't mean anything. I disagree with you about Hezbollah's motives, but that's besides the point. No country in the world could ignore militarily what Hezbollah has done over the last year. To call the missile attacks an act of war would be to understate dramatically the campaign they've undertaken. You can believe Hezbollah's motives were pure and their campaign fully justified. Israel was still going to s…

> No country in the world could ignore militarily what Hezbollah has done over the last year. Only Israel reacts to terrorism with a genocidal rampage. No other country behaves like this. And it only behaves like this because it has been enabled by their allies, and the international community, who consistently let their crimes go unpunished, including but not limited to their settlement policy. On the flip side, no…

Once again: Hezbollah occupies Lebanon. It is not a resistance movement. A majority of Lebanese (which is not majority Shia) loathes it. It's primary military engagements over the last decade --- even after including the casualties it incurred by opening a front with Israel over the last year --- have been in Syria, where it has been gleefully (and I use that word advisedly; look up the details, they've been making videos --- Madaya; Homs; Idlib) murdering children and civilians. You give the game away a bit when you equate Hezbollah with Hamas. They are radically different organizations. Both are terrible, but they are terrible in their own distinct ways.

I understand why people have a problem with Israel. It makes a lot of sense. But you cannot simply assume any declared military enemy of Israel is a resistance organization. We went through this with Ansar Allah in Yemen, which is literally a racialist fascist dictatorship representing single-digit percentages of the population, also managed by the IRGC QF, and also killing civilians by the tens of thousands.

Re: How Israel’s bulky pager fooled Hezbollah

#195

Post by barryrandall »

nabla9 wrote: post #32
yieldcrv wrote: post #9

Alright boomers, if your website has “contact us” for pricing instead of a two-click way to order it digitally then I’m going to assume you are placing bombs inside your electronics

"contact us" means that they don't want _you_ to contact them. Where I work "contact us" usually means more than €5000 in sales and there is too much to negotiate on price to give a quote.

It also usually indicates that prices are based on who you are instead of what you're buying.

Re: How Israel’s bulky pager fooled Hezbollah

#196

Post by tptacek »

runarberg wrote: post #191
tptacek wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel is not going to dissolve. They're 9 million people with a hypercapable, nuclear-armed military.

History disagrees with you. Apartheid states—even nuclear armed ones—have in the past dissolved into a one democratic state of all their peoples.

Israel's policies may change (do note that a distinction is being drawn here between Israeli Arabs, who enjoy Israeli citizenship, freedom of movement, voting rights, Knesset membership, etc and Palestinians, who do not). The state of Israel is not going to dissolve, because there are no plausible pressures that can be brought to bear to make that happen.

Re: How Israel’s bulky pager fooled Hezbollah

#197

Post by hmcq6 »

edanm wrote: post #175
hmcq6 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember when Israel shot at that car with a family in it? Hind Rajab. Or when they sniped that journalist and attacked her funeral, Shireen Abu Aqleh? Or when they bombed the AP building in 2021 with no evidence. Or when the IOF threw a baby in an oven in front of the father during the Deir Yassin massacre? Hussein al-Shareef and Abdul Rauf Or when they bombed refugee camps? Or when they told people to evacuate sout…

Yes, you can make a list of terrible acts committed by almost any military, especially if you go back 76 years to before it was a state. It is very clear that some soldiers in the IDF, like in any army, have committed war crimes.

It's not "some soldiers", Netanyahu and others at the top have signified their intent to commit genocide with their repeated dehumanization of Palestinians as "Amalek". The Israeli Minister of National Security was a member of a recognized terrorist group. It's not some bad apples, the leadership in Israel is rotten to the core.

But it's clear that no matter what I say you're gonna excuse it. Throwing a baby into an oven in front of the father is some next level nazi shit. If you'll excuse that you'll excuse anything

Re: How Israel’s bulky pager fooled Hezbollah

#198

Post by tptacek »

hmcq6 wrote: post #174
tim333 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It doesn't have a right to occupy Palestine So where is it supposed to go? Israelis go home back to Israel?

Move it to Uganda. /s But I answered this an hour ago. A one state solution does not mean the mass deportation of Jews. They should become equal citizens of Palestine. And obviously the Israelis who stole Palestinian homes at gun point would have to return the property they stole.

Nothing like that is plausibly going to happen. We might as well talk about surrendering San Antonio to the Mexicans; that will happen first.

Re: How Israel’s bulky pager fooled Hezbollah

#199

Post by tptacek »

CapricornNoble wrote: post #189
edanm wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't approve of Hezbollah or Hamas; but if you strip away the violence and Islamic extremism and all of that then the uncomfortable reality is ... they're not wrong in their core objections. Israel has consistently maintained that no, actually, the core problem is that Hezbollah and Hamas exist, and once we get rid of these people all the problems will be gone. Let me offer you a counter-perspective on this. Isr…

> And they are probably right! Israel remvoed the settlements from Gaza, removed all military presence from Gaza, and the Gazans elected Hamas, which took over the Gaza strip (killing all PA members), then spent 15 years shooting rockets at Israel continuously It probably would have been a good idea to: NOT bulldoze Gaza's airport ( https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2014/08/31/344329313/... ) NOT bulldoze the fo…

I'm not sure anybody on this thread disagrees with you about the airport and the seaport and the economic blockade.

Re: How Israel’s bulky pager fooled Hezbollah

#200

Post by tptacek »

nujabe wrote: post #170
tptacek wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These takes are problematic because it's clear to most observers that the attacks were, by the standards set by ground combat in Fallujah, NATO air operations in Kunar Province, or operations against ISIL in Inherent Resolve, the pager/radio attacks were drastically more discriminating, and caused a tiny fraction of the noncombatant casualties. This, of course, is also a distorted standard capturing only NATO/aligned…

tptacek, it’s hard to take any of your analysis seriously when you label Hezbollah, a non-state controlled armed resistance militia , with no tanks, fighter jets or submarines a “neer-peer military adversary” of Israel, which essentially has full & unlimited access to US weapons stockpiles and latest defence technology (minus nukes and subs). You are wittingly or unwittingly utilizing the same propaganda strategy of…

One reason I call them that is that they fought Israel to a standstill in southern Lebanon not long ago; the missile attacks were presumably an attempt to lure the IDF into a similar confrontation. Hezbollah is Iran; they are an instrument of the IRGC. Israel and Iran aren't near-peer military forces; they are peers. Israel cannot unilaterally overwhelm Iran.
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