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FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

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Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm quite capable of seeking out information from political candidates instead of them spamming me.

That's not engagement, it's passive consumption. The system only works if sufficient people are part of the process, and that takes at the very minimum two way communication.

I mean this specifically in America, but does "political engagement" even do anything here? Pretty sure the battle lines have been drawn and you're either spamming or preaching to the choir.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#692
post #680

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Utility companies are unfortunately exactly that kind of stupid though.

My utility doesn't seem to market to me. What the heck are they sending email to you for? "Use more electricity!" "Build a new house!" "Get a hot tub?"

I'm not sure if it would be called "marketing" but my power company would send "you're using more energy than your neighbors" (I worked from home) and "think about why you use the most energy at night" (in the winter) emails which were no better than spam.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#693

The problem is actually in the payment system itself. A credit card number + expiry + ccv + name is essentially like giving out a username + password to your money. We hand out the same username / password to everybody and everything works on the honor system after that. At any given time there are likely hundreds of companies that have your username/password and can charge whatever they want at any time. If anything…

I have paid for everything via credit card for 20+ years now, entering my credit card info online thousands of times, and have yet to have a fraudulent charge. And if I do, I just call the number on the back of the card and they give the money back to me. The system works 99% of the time, for billions and billions of transactions. Which is why it has stayed. Edit: obviously, ideally, there would be a federal governme…

I've had to deal with credit card fraud on two occasions. Each involving several thousand dollars and many hours of time investment.

People should be in control of their own money. The current system categorically absurd.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have paid for everything via credit card for 20+ years now, entering my credit card info online thousands of times, and have yet to have a fraudulent charge. And if I do, I just call the number on the back of the card and they give the money back to me. The system works 99% of the time, for billions and billions of transactions. Which is why it has stayed. Edit: obviously, ideally, there would be a federal governme…

I've had to deal with credit card fraud on two occasions. Each involving several thousand dollars and many hours of time investment. People should be in control of their own money. The current system categorically absurd.

>The current system categorically absurd.

It seems like a decent solution that emerged without a federal government solution (could be better, but things progress incrementally).

What is absurd is the lack of action on part of the federal government (which eventually filters down to voters) on developing electronic payments as resilient infrastructure, in conjunction with digital identity verification.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, I remember when Amazon Prime first started, I signed up for the free trial to get free shipping on something. Of course, I forgot about it and didn’t cancel, but then I got an email from Amazon saying, “hey, you didn’t cancel your prime subscription but you also haven’t used it at all, so we are going to not charge you and cancel it for now. Here is how you easily restart your subscription if you end up needing…

Early Amazon was pro-customer in a way that I think most people have forgotten. Maybe that was always the strategy? They were losing money for years, and maybe that was investing in the company, or maybe it was allowing really large losses to keep customers happy, planning all along to eventually clamp down when people were addicted. And here we are. Their return rate is still pretty terrible, IIRC. I bet they are tr…

This is textbook enshitification: Initially, vendors create high-quality offerings to attract users, then they degrade those offerings to better serve business customers, and finally degrade their services to users and business customers to maximize profits for shareholders. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification)

Reddit is following the same pattern. Entice everyone over from digg, make users happy and grow base, appeal to businesses, then squeeze the business (API changes). Chrome used to be the faster, cleaner, more 'techie' option, and they too have departed from Day1 and moved into the squeeze.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#697
post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Early Amazon was pro-customer in a way that I think most people have forgotten. I think this is why I'm still such a loyal customer, and use Amazon for so many purchases. Intellectually I know that Amazon does super crappy things, both to their workers and around their website and sales. But I've been a Prime member since it was first offered, nearly 20 years now, and I still fondly remember when Amazon's customer…

Interestingly, I actually still have only had great experiences with Amazon customer service. I have a feeling that is entirely due to how much my family continues to spend with them, though. It is pretty well known that their customer service response to things varies with how much your spend.

The customer service is a margins game, and you are correct that they ratio spend to returns to track those margins per account.

The service degradation is in terms of search no longer being useful, promoted/ad brands everywhere, popup 'businesses' with co-mingled inventory, fake reviews, just general lack of trust earning. Amazon used to be THE place to get the cheapest option too, but that is rarely the case these days.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although in practice I don't think it will be an issue, in theory issuing a chargeback on your credit card does not release you from any financial obligations you agreed to with a contract. And if that contract specifies that you must "call to cancel" I don't think "I emailed" will hold up in court (but IANAL). Of course with this FCC ruling that could very well not be the case, but in any case always be wary of issu…

That requires your debt to: a) be worth fighting for in court; and, b) be of a nature the news won’t murder the company over the lawsuit.

They don't have to go to court, they'll just send you to collections and report it on your credit.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#699

Nice. I canceled a service recently and I had to "continue to cancel" and click on other such "confirmations" such that I think I proceeded through 7-8 pages before my subscription was actually canceled. Truly manipulative and obtuse. That was Spotify btw. I should have recorded the process, as it was nearly comedic (if it weren't so hostile).

At least they didn't make you make a phone call and have a rep try to prevent you from doing so for an hour (looking at you NYT).

I was on phone support for a SaaS based company that did something similar. Massive pricing restructuring increasing 90% of accounts bill and they made you call in and wait on hold to cancel. This was 10 years ago, but the ruling is a welcome pro-consumer addition.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My utility doesn't seem to market to me. What the heck are they sending email to you for? "Use more electricity!" "Build a new house!" "Get a hot tub?"

I'm not sure if it would be called "marketing" but my power company would send "you're using more energy than your neighbors" (I worked from home) and "think about why you use the most energy at night" (in the winter) emails which were no better than spam.

Also ‘free energy audit!’, ‘sign up for our peak-load-and-we’ll shut off your AC program’, and ‘we’re good people, honest!’ promotions.
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