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Ireland's big school secret: how a year off-curriculum changes teenage lives

theguardian.com

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Re: Ireland's big school secret: how a year off-curriculum changes teenage lives

#111

Post by secfirstmd »

tumblrinaowned wrote: post #104

Great. Let's model a failed country. If they were smart they would start with adding more and reducing it.

Failed country? By what measure? One of the highest GNPs per person, one of the most democratic, one of the highest winners of novel prizes for literature per population, one of the safest countries in the world, one of the most food secure countries in the world, overall very good and mostly free health and education, a high redistributive tax system, friendly people, easy place to work...

Re: Ireland's big school secret: how a year off-curriculum changes teenage lives

#112

Post by piltdownman »

kiliantics wrote: post #95
jan_Inkepa wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

School for me (in Ireland) was more or less a race to get out of school (+ concomitant bullying) and into university to study what I was interested in (maths - at that point I wasn't able to advance any further on my own and there was nobody who could help/guide me further where I lived) - the idea of adding a year on felt like it would be a waste. In retrospect, yeah I think I made a good call. Happy to see other pe…

I think OP must have grown up in a pretty affluent neighbourhood. (How many schools have programmes with epidemiological institutes?) If I had done TY in the school I went to with the others in my cohort that did, my experience would have likely been much closer to theirs than to OP's: rarely attending school, drinking, smoking weed, and in some cases not returning back to school at all to finish the leaving cert. I…

TY was historically the proviso of South Dublin schools and the more elite boarders. The majority of rural students skipped it and hit University by 17.

OP sounds like he was in a gaelscoil - an Irish language school. The 'epidemiological institute' in question was either RCSI or UCD - fairly standard for 3rd level institutions to have relationships/programmes/open days with various feeder Schools.

The big red herring was the engine module. No 'affluent' school would remotely consider offering a course in stripping an engine over a semester in 1998 - far more likely that those Students were put learning classics, latin or ancient greek.

Re: Ireland's big school secret: how a year off-curriculum changes teenage lives

#113

Post by piltdownman »

wiredfool wrote: post #19

In Ireland -- with one kid in Junior Cert and one who did Junior Cert, then had an external Transition Year, then self studied for A levels, and one who's done home school/self study through GCSE and now doing A levels. It's an optional, definitely not universal thing. Not all schools offer it, and even then I get the impression that it's well less than half the students take the opportunity. The implementation is al…

All private and boarder schools have it as mandatory for at least 20 years at this point. The public schools that don't tend to either be in extremely rural areas with low university accession to begin with (and a different focus on things like the Leaving Cert Applied and/or facilitating the Sileage/Farming season).

Re: Ireland's big school secret: how a year off-curriculum changes teenage lives

#114

Post by piltdownman »

illwrks wrote: post #14
MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #5

Sounds like a great idea. In England, I've seen education get consistently more rigid and inflexible over the years. All about tests, tests and more tests. Teachers leave the profession, children turn off. And as it consistently fails to produce better results, the answer is always to do more of what has failed. Bring something like this to England, please!

Is this not the same as a gap year? I’m Irish but unfortunately never bothered with TY. I live in the UK now so I’ve a limited understanding of TY and the ‘Gap year’.

Gap Year is taken between 2nd and 3rd level education at the persons own impetus - generally used to backpack around SEA and/or work for a bit in the 'real world'.

Transition Year is the 4th year of 2nd Level in Ireland - the conclusion of the 'Junior Cycle' of secondary school, culminating with the 10-14 Subject 'Junior Certificate' exam at the end of 3rd year. It is a regular year in terms of school attendance, but rather than academic modules structure against a strict curriculum, students tend to do a mix of practical and theoretical skills.

Things like intro to psychology, philosophy, an esoteric language or other college accession style intro classes are popular. Photography/Film Making, Cooking, Self-Defense/Martial Arts classes are all popular on the practical side.

Most of the religious schools (i.e. about 80% of all schools) tend to have a charity component as well - seeing TY students out collecting for Irish Cancer Society or packing bags in a supermarket to fund a local Hospice is pretty standard.

Re: Ireland's big school secret: how a year off-curriculum changes teenage lives

#115

Post by piltdownman »

acjohnson55 wrote: post #67
asdasdsddd wrote: post #61

I think a lot of the mental illness for young boys is that the education ladder deprives them of responsibility until way past maturity.

Out of curiosity, why do you think that's a problem for boys, in particular?

Girls hitting puberty 2-3 years younger and being assumed as being more 'responsible' as per traditional gender roles from about the age of cognition.

This is non-withstanding the Western Educational premise of treating 'misbehaving' boys as 'broken' girls, as opposed to facilitating them in a mutually acceptable learning style.

Re: Ireland's big school secret: how a year off-curriculum changes teenage lives

#117

Post by squigz »

TinkersW wrote: post #106
squigz wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So biased toward American public education, in New York City of all places. For what it's worth, I look back on my time in school with relative fondness. Certainly I don't agree with anything like it 'being a cage' or feeling isolated from other people (????)

I very much found it to be a cage.

That's unfortunate for you

Re: Ireland's big school secret: how a year off-curriculum changes teenage lives

#118

Post by interludead »

h_tbob wrote: post #98

Everybody mocks me when I say this. But the most productive people in the world spent their time doing what they thought was fun. It’s like our biology is smarter than us. If it’s fun our brains are telling us there’s something about it we need. It’s like when you think a girl is cute for the first time. There’s no logic in it to you, but it’s the most logical thing in the world, that’s why it’s fun. Hans Zimmer used…

When people engage in activities they genuinely enjoy, they're often more motivated and that's true!

Re: Ireland's big school secret: how a year off-curriculum changes teenage lives

#119

Post by watwut »

SoftTalker wrote: post #56
MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #5

Sounds like a great idea. In England, I've seen education get consistently more rigid and inflexible over the years. All about tests, tests and more tests. Teachers leave the profession, children turn off. And as it consistently fails to produce better results, the answer is always to do more of what has failed. Bring something like this to England, please!

> tests, tests and more tests Same in the USA. The old student question "will this be on the test?" is now also asked by teachers and administrators. If the answer is "no" they skip it.

The "will I be punished for not putting additional work into this or can I go watch a movie" is reasonable question.
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